play testing the new rules

[Leslie BT]

Busy getting my pirate ships and navy ships up together.

It will be interesting to hear how this week first play test goes.

[Smiley Miley 66]

I found my old box of Pirates. So at least that's a start ?

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[Smiley Miley 66]

Blimey How old are these ?

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[martin goddard]

That is about 25 years old. It probably has the 15mm ship in it rather than the 1/450th ships.  the 15mm ship is rare and valuable these days  Miles.

[martin goddard]

I think it is the one put together by Iain at Mini Wargames?

[Smiley Miley 66]

I think you could be correct as the box on the picture above says "miniature wargames". Thinking about i ve lived in Mudeford 19 years and i got when we were living in Somerford, so its got to be at least 21 years old ?

[Stewart 46A]

Pirate came
Mike,Duncan v Rob , Paul (attacker)
Defender chose Force 1 (because of battle hardened warship)
Got fog on mastery of sea
Got upgrade warship to battle hardened, but already had this in the force

Attack chose force 2
Got extra crew

No one had problem with deployment
(My thought, attack have 2D6 or D6 +4 as attacker was playing catch up from start)

No one had problem with firing including rake only in own turn and only 1 opportunity shot.

Attack captured 1 large merchant

Score D 19 (1 x med merchant, 2x small merchant off, 5 on 1xD6 after re roll)
A 7 ( 1x large merchant , 1 o1xD6 after recroll)
Result was fair based on forces involved

Reason Battle-hardened Defender Warship out shot both attacker ships, enabling merchants to escape.  Attacker medium ship managed to board large merchant but lost most crew.

5 death rolls were rolled all scoring 2,3 &4 so no outcome

My suggestions
Down grade defender warships
Increase attacker force
Increase grappling and boarding numbers for attacker
Fog very ineffective, deployed too far up table and disappears very easy. Maybe 5+ not 4+ and deploy 10 hex from starting edge

[Colonel Kilgore]

Thanks Stewart: very useful summary of the game and suggested improvements. It's nice to see how other folk are getting on with the new draft rules.

[Leslie BT]

It looks like were going to have a small group here to play test as well.
Don't know how often though due to other commitments.

[martin goddard]

All play-testers welcomed!

[Duncan]

I have to agree with Stewart that the fog bank as is does not have any effectiveness. Twice I have had it and it has disappeared more or less on the first turn with a wind change. Would it be better to split it into two smaller ones that are treated independent? Or maybe rather than disappear it could get blown in the direction of the wind, perhaps by d6 squares or something?

My able bodied small ship did very well in the game keeping the enemy off neatly everything except our biggest merchant which so very nearly got away only being boarded one hex from the safety of the table edge leaving me no time or space to recapture it.
I then managed to fight Ron's medium warship to a standstill where despite being smaller I grappled and boarded his ship only for us both to loose all our crews in the fighting so no overall victory and with no guns or sails left either we were both just left to float apart which fortunately was the end of the game and again one hex from the edge.

Have you considered allowing warships (or any SHIP.) to purchase marines for anti boarding actions?

You asked about rises? We were discussing the game at club on Friday. One of the things I discussed with Paul was the type of cargo carrier. Some ships would be full of valuable goods, other may be full of prisoners on their way to the colonies or slaves, both of which maybe inclined to support and potentially join pirates in overcoming the crew. Others could be loaded with fully armed troops on their way to an overseas deployment which could give any pirates a nasty surprise.

Have you thought about parley? Maybe a bit tongue in cheek but could be interesting in campaign games.

[martin goddard]

Good points there Duncan.
The following comments are intended to "stoke" discussion.
i will do something about that fog. Your idea of drift is a good one.

I have  written the first attempt at ruses and will get a new edition of pirates out later today (?)
We must resist the temptation to Hollywood the game whilst at the same time making the game enjoyable.
I will tend to favour the  game as "intellectual challenge" rather than a "replay of a film".

The boarding actions in pirates are maybe a bit too quick in terms of aftermath (?). maybe a "capture turn".
Pirates tended to view slaves as valuable cargo too. Thus they would sell them on if possible.  Pirates were not nice people.
Captured crews can be pressed, but probably not within the normal game span.

Good to hear the game report. It has been suggested that the attackers should have had more ships/men and the defender's less.



These are still early days, so be prepared for seismic changes!

[Rob R]

Getting the play balance right will require fine tuning. The battle hardened small warship easily out fought our able small warship and also gave our able medium warship a hard time. If we had not added six extra crew pieces from the pre-game we would have had very little chance.


Battle hardened small warship firing at medium warship (not rake or short range) 3 guns (6D6), Battle hardened (2D6), target bigger (-2D6) Total 8D6
Able medium warship firing at small warship (not rake or short range) 3 Guns (6d6), target smaller (2D6) Total 8D6
Add in the extra manoeuvrability of the small warship and it should be easier to get in a position to rake etc.

[Duncan]

Is that not as it should be though, a small nimble ship with a good crew should be able to out move a larger vessel and a more experienced crew would be much more confident and as such maybe more likely to be able to put up a good fight.
Personally I thought the battle between the small battle hardened ship and medium able ship was about right, as it would be and it could have gone eithercway on a dice roll, as it was everything rolled out about equal, but it was exciting and possibly nailbiting!
I think the only downside was that it was pretty much the last action of the game. Had it happened earlier then whichever ship won would have had a huge outcome for the game, leaving either the merchants or the attacker defenceless more or less. It would have been interesting seeing as both vessels were fought to a standstill with no guns, crew or sails left, I guess it would have come down to whoever was able to recover and wind direction etc.

[Duncan]

Just a couple of observations on, last night's game.
1: It seemed to me much more like a small naval skirmish than pirates against merchants, with five ships on the defenders side and four on the other.
2: Upgrading the medium merchant to have extra crew and five, yes FIVE!!! Guns was a major advantage for us. I do think rather than the five guns it may have been better to stick with upgrading the ship to be 'Able' as if it is a warship being used in this instance to transport stuff but essentially with the same crew, well the crew are the crew, they are not suddenly become incompetent just because they have cargo onboard and they are also not going to suddenly sprout more guns than a normal warship. So maybe give it the extra crew, the same guns as a warship and make it able, essentially make it a medium warship possibly with a little more crew to give it it's trick advantage.
3: There was only one boarding attempt which resulted in a successful grapple but a draw in the fighting.
3a. Question. If I have a warship (or any Ship for that matter.) in the same hex as one of my merchants, does this prevent a pirate coming alongside and boarding it as there are already two vessels in the hex? If not can crew from the warship come across to fight the pirates as after all that is why the warship is there to support the merchant and prevent boarding?
4: It may have all worked a lot differently if the opponent's dice rolls had not been so ineffective early on as this left my warships free to run rings around them and protect the fleet after shooting one of theirs to bits and leaving it a burning wreck before it could hardly even move.
5: The attacker captured a ship which then just sat there. At one point we had four ships surrounding it with none of the attackers to hand. It seemed rediculous that we were not allowed to try and reboard it when we were in such a strong position and the enemy would only have had a small crew aboard, alternatively to deny them the prize we should have been able to sink it!
6. OK thinking of that last one. An additional trick perhaps? The crew of one of your merchants are loyal to the company/crown/whoever and will not see the ship taken. If it is boarded and the fight is lost the remaining men try to sabotage it opening up the seacocks or if they were not invented by then (?) Just that they will knock holes in the hull below the waterline, set it on fire or otherwise render it untakable as a prize. I would suggest in this case that the attacker gets no victory points for the ship but neither does the defenders, it is just like it did not exist.
7: Marker for opportunity shooting done.
8: An observation is that in most PP games the attacker gets an advantage in that the defenders have a smaller force usually due to depletions. Now whilst unlike a straight up fight between two equal forces the best I know that Martin does not and whilst we disagree on that it does seem odd that in this game that is reversed. Every game in have played the defenders have a bigger fleet, it has been five to two but even yesterday it was five to four. It would seem that the normal rule of the attacker having a bigger force does not apply in this case? Maybe the force definition needs redefining to make the pirates the defenders (?) Perhaps on the pretence that the current defender has warships sent by the government / company etc to intercept troublesome pirates who have been harassing shipping?
9: Can't speak about fog as did not use it this time.
10: One last observation, the attacker had a large warship which despite being large as rather handicapped by the one turn rule allowing smaller warships to run rings round it!
11: OK a question. Tricks. Most have to be declared when the opponent enters one hex. Does this apply only if they move within one hex or also if you move within one hex? We wanted to use our trick but I pointed out that it was too late as the opponent had been within one hex for over a turn already. We ended up having to use it on another ship. Then our opponent tried to use their one when attempting a boarding but when they entered the same hex that our ship was in. I pointed out they could not as they were supposed to declare it when they moved within one hex not leave it until in the same hex and that we had not used ours for the same reason. This then resulted in a discussion on this.
11a: As I said we were going to use one of our ships but ended up using it on the other due to the above reason. One question I asked was we had two medium merchant ships and did we have to declare which one the trick related to (by writing it next to the name on our manifest.) In advance or could we just randomly choose during the game as circumstances decides. Personally I think if there is an option of more than one ship it should be decided which one has it in advance. In our case option 1 the upgrade of a merchant ship with more crew or armament, well that would have been done before they left port not spontaneously as the need arises in the middle of a fight. Everyone else disagreed though and felt we should be able to choose at the time, which to me just does not make sense as it is not realistic.
OK. That is enough for now my finger is tired.