New version of PBI - A few questions?

[Forst22]

I have played PBI over many years and this is the 4th iteration of the rules I have used. My impression of the rules are that they have many simplifications which are very useful, but I am also left a little confused by a few things which I would like to clarify.

A) you used to be unable to use both Opportunity fire and Return fire, but I can't see that in the rules now, so can you now use both vs same square?

B) Return fire is not mentioned for Vehicles with MG's, so am I right in thinking that they can no longer add their fire power to infantry in their square when they  respond? 

C) how do you handle vehicles with 20mm autocannon and coax, when engaging foot targets? Are they just able to use coax and ignore 20mm like o the tanks,?
This is significant for Germans as it makes them much less effective.

D) are woods and buildings counted as one type and restricted to 3 max, or Can you choose 3 of each?

E) Can I assume the "or" in bullet point 2 p61  is a typo? It implies you can only use 1 or all remaining asset dice in a turn, but the rest of the text suggests you can use any number up to those remaining?

F) I also assume the tabbed Outcrops in the very terrain picture is an error, as elsewhere it says use Outcrops as Wood substitutes in Deserts, and the rules specifically stated only buildings are tabbed!

G) Satchel Charges - is the limit 1 per assault, or one per base in the assault of the former this is a real cramp on Japanese AT ability! . (I prefer the latter, as they are limited in number, but if you want to represent Jap AT tactics then it seems justified !)

I) Jap tank Hunter asset, seems redundant under the rules as they tended to have only Satchcharges/mines/At Rifles. I would be tempted to let them use approach rules then give the base a free assault as per rules, they would need to negotiate opportunity fire, here they come fire and the assault but sequence, possible vs solitary tank, less so if tank has foot escort as per actual learnt tactics!)

Thanks

Graham

[martin goddard]

Hello Graham
I really hope you enjoy the 2025 more than any other PBI set.


A) you used to be unable to use both Opportunity fire and Return fire, but I can't see that in the rules now, so can you now use both vs same square?
YES BOTH CAN BE USED, IF JUSTIFIED BY CIRCUMSTANCE.

B) Return fire is not mentioned for Vehicles with MG's, so am I right in thinking that they can no longer add their fire power to infantry in their square when they  respond?
VEHICLE MGS CAN USE OPP AND RETURN SHOOTING, AS VEHICLE MGS ARE PART OF SMALL SHOOTING.

C) how do you handle vehicles with 20mm autocannon and coax, when engaging foot targets? Are they just able to use coax and ignore 20mm like o the tanks,?
This is significant for Germans as it makes them much less effective.
THE 20MM CAN BE PAID AND USED AS AN MG ARMAMENT (MMG).  OR IT CAN BE PAID FOR AS A GUN 5 WITH A VEHICLE MG. PLAYERS CAN CHOOSE EITHER BUT NOT HAVE BOTH.PLAYERS CAN MAKE IT GUN 10 IF THEY PAY FOR IT. NO FREEBIES.

D) are woods and buildings counted as one type and restricted to 3 max, or Can you choose 3 of each?
WOODS AND BUILDINGS ARE DISTINCT TYPES. A PLAYER COULD CHOOSE 3 WOODS AND 3 BUILDINGS BUT IT WILL MAKE THE TABLE TOUGH ON MANOEUVRE. A GREAT FEATURE OF PBI.

E) Can I assume the "or" in bullet point 2 p61  is a typo? It implies you can only use 1 or all remaining asset dice in a turn, but the rest of the text suggests you can use any number up to those remaining?
YOU CAN USE ANY NUMBER.

F) I also assume the tabbed Outcrops in the very terrain picture is an error, as elsewhere it says use Outcrops as Wood substitutes in Deserts, and the rules specifically stated only buildings are tabbed!
PLAYERS CAN USE ANY SCENERY MODELS THEY WISH.
IF THEY REPRESENT WOODS WITH OUTCROP MODELS THEN NO TABBING. IF THEY REPRESENT BUILDINGS WITH OUTCROP MODELS THEN THEY MUST BE TABBED.

G) Satchel Charges - is the limit 1 per assault, or one per base in the assault of the former this is a real cramp on Japanese AT ability! . (I prefer the latter, as they are limited in number, but if you want to represent Jap AT tactics then it seems justified !)
SATCHEL CHARGES 1 PER BASE. JAPANESE AT ABILITY WAS ALWAYS APPALLINGLY BAD.

I) Jap tank Hunter asset, seems redundant under the rules as they tended to have only Satchcharges/mines/At Rifles. I would be tempted to let them use approach rules then give the base a free assault as per rules, they would need to negotiate opportunity fire, here they come fire and the assault but sequence, possible vs solitary tank, less so if tank has foot escort as per actual learnt tactics!)
FOR SIMPLICITY ALL TANKS HUNTERS ARE TREATED THE SAME. JAPANESE TANK HUNTERS WOULD COUNT AS POORER TYPE. It would be too time consuming to have a separate tank hunter rule section for each nation?

Hope that is all good.

martin

[Forst22]

Thanks for that.

I think I will tend to use the 20mm as a gun 5 but give it a nominal HE of 1. It can then fight like any other tank, using its coax for local defence, but the option of targeted longer range anti infantry if it likes. 

I particularly like the new morale rules, and the simplification of command.

The no small shooting in or out of gullies is an interesting change, need to do some modelling!

Cheers

[martin goddard]

Sounds like a good solution Graham.

martin

[Forst22]

Presumably with Gullies, the no small fire ban precludes any opportunity fire? 

Does it preclude any small fire between each of the 2 fully squares?

A good way to infiltrate!

[martin goddard]

Gullies.
Without checking, I think:-

No shooting in or out or within.
But HE can be used in and out.

I qualify the above by saying that the restriction is due to the inability of troops to effectively shoot in or out. There would be some shooting , but not effective shooting.

martin

[John Watson]

But to use HE the troops in the gully would have to be visible to troops in your company, wouldn't they?
Also I didn't think you could fire from one gully square to the other one in the template.
John

[Colonel Kilgore]

But to use HE the troops in the gully would have to be visible to troops in your company, wouldn't they?
Also I didn't think you could fire from one gully square to the other one in the template.
John

John,

I think you'd need to be able to see troops in an adjacent square, and so have the second HE shot falling into (just the) one square of the gully. Which would of course be off-table HE from an Asset rather than on-table Big Gun or mortar HE.

HE could also be deviated into the gully, but only a 1 in 6 chance of that per shot.

I think you and Martin are agreeing ("within") that there is no shooting from one gully square to another.

Simon

[Sean Clark]

So the HE asset CAN target a gully?

On table HE/Mortar only if it deviates?

[martin goddard]

HE can directly target a gully.
The enemy know that there are troops there.
They cannot bring effective direct shooting to bear.

martin

[martin goddard]

No problem John. Let me address those two points.

1. No direct shooting in or out or within.

2.The troops can certainly see each other or/and are aware of their presence. They cannot effectively shoot at each other . As this shooting is not effective, it has been disallowed. Men would be popping up and down and shooting an odd shot. Gullies do not have a continuous trench edge. Instead, the gully has multiple dips, channels and blobs. This is a general rule as PBI is not a skirmish game in which individuals might manoeuvre and shoot.

If players wish gullies to be the same as others scenery then don't use them, but put partials in those squares. Gullies represent another challenge for the poor commander or  potential benefit for the better commander.

Mortars shooting out only need a single observer/commander. Mortars shooting in are an area weapon which does not need to identify specific targets.


martin

[Colonel Kilgore]

HE can directly target a gully.
The enemy know that there are troops there.
They cannot bring effective direct shooting to bear.

martin

Whoops - I'd got that quite a bit wrong, then! Thanks for clarifying, Martin.

I'll have to remember that one, whether attacking or defending.

Simon

[Leslie BT]

Company Commander.
1. Can he be in a vehicle?
2. Does the vehicle give him protection?
3. Can the vehicle have a MG mounted on it?
4. If the vehicle is hit does it all work the same as transport carrying troops?

[Colonel Kilgore]

Les, I think the answers to all 4 of your questions is the same - no! 

I have Company Commanders in a vehicle for the look of the thing, but to all intents and purposes I believe they are the same - just a Company Commander!

Simon

[John Watson]

I'm sure Simon is right. You can put him in a vehicle or anything else you want, but the CC cannot be anything else other than himself, so no weapons or armour that helps him.
John