New version of PBI - A few questions?

[martin goddard]

Hello Pablo
You are an excellent play tester.  Keep it up please.

The capital letters are to help differentiate between question and reply.


Do all units within a square have to perform the same actions, or can some move while others shoot?
THEY CAN ALL DO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Do units that move have to move together, or can they split into groups and go to different squares? I assume that in this case, I would need to track the APs remaining for each group separately.
THEY CAN ALL DO DIFFERENT THINGS/DIRECTIONS.

Can units within a square split and shoot at different squares? What happens if I want to shoot from a square that contains, for example, three rifle bases at two different squares? Let's say I fire with two bases at one square containing enemy units and the other base at a different square that also contains enemy units. Are both attacks resolved at the same time? Or would one be resolved first, applying the results of return fire to that attack, and then the second attack would be resolved?
PBI IS SEQUENTIAL.  THIS MEANS THAT A PLAYER CARRIES OUT AN ACTION AND IT IS FINISHED (AND RESPONDED TO) BEFORE HE DOES ANOTHER ACTION.
DO NOTE THAT A SQUARE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO SPLIT ITS SHOOTING IF A TARGET SQUARE IS THE PRIORITY.

 This is important because if they are not simultaneous and one is resolved before the other, it could happen that the return fire from the first attack eliminates my units, preventing me from carrying out the second attack.
YES THAT CAN HAPPEN.THAT IS INTENTIONAL. A PLAYER WHO WANTS TO DO SOMETHING MIGHT ENDANGER IT BY DOING ANOTHER ACTION FIRST. PLAYERS NEED TO UNDERSTAND TAHT THE PASSIVE PLAYER IS NOT TOTALLY PASSIVE.


Do shots always have to be grouped together? That is, can I fire once, see what happens, fire again, see what happens, and then take the last shot? I understand that this is not the best option because I would receive three instances of return fire, but I still want to be sure that it is possible. In the Return Shooting section, it seems to suggest that shots can be divided.
YOU CAN SHOOT SEPARATELY. IF YOU HAVE 3 RIFLE BASE WITH 3AP EACH THEY CAN SHOOT 9
SEPARATE TIMES. THIS WILL ALLOW THE TARGET TO RETURN SHOOT 9 TIMES TOO.

If I shoot at a unit and, by spending dice that were hits, I manage to pin the target, does the return shooting from that pinned unit also lose the first rolled 6?
YES. PBI IS SEQUENTIAL. IF YOU INFLICT A PIN THEY ARE PINNED INSTANTLY.


martin

[John Watson]

My understanding is:-
1. No, bases within a square can do different things in most cases. Exceptions are removing a "pin" which has to be carried out by the square and removing dead bodies already in the square.
2. No, you can split up bases to move in any direction you like, or not move at all, provided you have enough AP.
3. I think you can split fire as long as you observe target priorities. i.e. you must shoot at enemy on your face rather than those on a diagonal. However each shooting is dealt with separately and so return fire could wipe you out before you got a second set of bases to fire.
4. No shots don't have to be grouped together. So you could fire once, see what the result is, and then fire again. However bear in mind that each time you fire you may get return fire. For example three German riflemen fire at one US LMG base. First shot of 3 dice all miss. US return fire of 2 dice scores a hit. Not saved. Second shot of 2 dice miss again. US reply of 2 dice scores another hit. Not saved. Final shot of 1 die also misses. US reply of 2 dice hits. Not saved. So the Germans have shot 6 dice in total. The US have replied with 6 dice. If the Germans had shot all three rounds at the same time they would have had 9 dice and the US would have replied with only 2 dice.
5. Yes. As long as a square is pinned it loses the first hit. The effect of pinning is immediate and lasts until the pin is removed.
I hope I have got that right.
John

[martin goddard]

Well said John.
Succinct.

martin

[Smiley Miley 66]

Removal of Dead Bodies.
That is done by everyone in the Square.
So that affects everyone's points there after !
I thought that had better be pointed out ?
Miles

[martin goddard]

Agreed Miles


martin

[Forst22]

So you must remove dead bodies first.

No moving most bases out and leaving one behind, who then spends all his so removing bodies!

[martin goddard]

Hello Graham
All bases in a square contribute toward the casualty removal.
Otherwise 3 bases with 2AP each could clear 3 casualties. This would be far too quick and not inconvenience the platoon.  Casualties need to inconvenience a platoon in a major way as in real life.

This works really well in PBI. I don't think any other WW2 rules encourage/use players to spend time caring for casualties?  In the real world; If time is not used to help casualties  morale will plummet. This is why there are such morale boosting phrases as "leave no man behind".

martin

[Forst22]

I think I may have expressed my point badly!

Say 3 bases and one casualty are in a square with 4 Ap.

Can two of those bases move to the next square (1ap), and then fire 3ap, leaving the 1 left behind to spend all his ap on clearing the casualty.

Or

Do they have to all attempt to clear the casualty first, then move on with any AP left? ( this spreading out the platoon causing command issues in later turns)!


Also

I am confused as to what armour can or cannot fire in response to small arms fire, at foot in the same square? The rules seem different for transport//tanks/ and armour with Mg main weapons. Some section specifically say no response others don't mention it?

I have so far concluded that armours can't be included and that their small arms response is limited to opportunity fire as protection vs enemy foot getting close

They can of course target enemy foot  in their own turn to provide very useful support to  their own foot!

[Smiley Miley 66]

Unlike the old rules, you spend 2 AP and one body gets cleared. It is cleared.
This is the trade off ? You can clear the body-bodies for 2 AP per base but the Whole Square pays for it ! Or you can choose to leave them but then they become a millstone around your neck ?
So if you have 6 points. You can clear 2 bodies and then fire once or twice depending on the weapon fired ? Or move one or two squares depending on the Square type you are exiting?
But the whole square pays for the bodies. Example: Not just the AT rifle man because he has no tanks to fire at ?
Once the bodies have been accounted for any points left over can be used ( by the whole square bases) to do what you can else where across the table.
Hopefully that explains it ?
Miles

[John Watson]

To clarify, if you have 4AP and three bases and a body. Two bases can move off for 1AP and fire once for 1AP but, if the third base wants to remove a body it must use 2AP from the square for every base that was in the square at the start of the turn for whom you were rolling the AP die. If the two bases want to spend 3AP on shooting that is fine, but then the third base cannot remove the body. It is not as complicated as it sounds. It would be easier to show you. Perhaps there is a video?
I'll leave someone more knowledgable to answer your armour question as I get confused about that.
John

[martin goddard]

PBI splits shooting into big shooting and small shooting.
Big shooting is guns, AT.
Small shooting is mgs, rifles.

Big shooting does not get return shooting and only 1 opportunity shot. This is Because big shooting has a much slower shot rate due to needing to load and target.

Small shooting  can opportunity and return shoot.
Luckily, tanks have an ability in both categories. The gun is big shooting and the MG is small shooting.

The MG joins in with all small shooting (range 2 squares).
This includes opportunity, return and here they come shooting.
In these circumstances the tank mg is part of the maximum allowed 3,4,5  raw/av/vet limit.


martin

[Pablo]

To clarify, if you have 4AP and three bases and a body. Two bases can move off for 1AP and fire once for 1AP but, if the third base wants to remove a body it must use 2AP from the square for every base that was in the square at the start of the turn for whom you were rolling the AP die. If the two bases want to spend 3AP on shooting that is fine, but then the third base cannot remove the body. It is not as complicated as it sounds. It would be easier to show you. Perhaps there is a video?
I'll leave someone more knowledgable to answer your armour question as I get confused about that.
John

I would like to confirm if this example is correct. In the same turn, can I move everyone out of a square where I have casualty markers and leave only one base to try to remove the casualties?

[John Watson]

Yes but the troops you move out must also pay the AP to remove the body. So you do not benefit from moving them out first.
John

[Pablo]

Yes but the troops you move out must also pay the AP to remove the body. So you do not benefit from moving them out first.
John

Oh! I misread your previous comment, John! Now I understand it! Thank you very much for replying 

[Forst22]

Just noticed, but in p21 when describing the adjustment to the dice for BAR, mg34 
, Mmg etc. Opportunity fire and return fire are mentioned, but not here they come?

Is this intentional, or does it apply to any fire? Including here the come.