Winners & Losers

Stewart 46A · November 30, 2023, 09:57:19 PM

Sorry finger slipped and accidentally deleted original topic

DATE ATTACKER Quality DEFENDER Quality WINNER
15/08/2023 Africa corps Average 8th Army Average A
16/08/2023 8th Army Average Africa corp. Average A
19/08/2023 Late war German Average Late war British Average D
21/08/2023 German Pz Grenadiers'Average Late war US Average A
26/09/2023 Volkstrum Raw Late war British Average A
28/09/2023 Late war US Average Partisans Raw Draw
03/10/2023 Late war British Average Partisans Raw Draw
05/10/2023 Partisans Raw Late war British Average A
11/10/2023 Japanese Raw 14th Army Average A
12/10/2023 14th Army Average Russian Average D
17/10/2023 German Paras Average US Army Average D
18/10/2023 8th Army Average Italian Average D
19/10/2023 British Motorised Vet Fallschirmjager Average D

21/10/23. US Army. Average. Late Germans. Average. D
21/10/23. Motorised British. Vet. Germans. Average. A
21/10/23. Africa corps. Average. Mot 8th Army. Vet. A
21/10/23. 8th Army. Average. Late Germans. Average. D
21/10/23. Motorised British. Vet. Germans. Average. D
21/10/23. Mot 8th Army. Vet. Fallschirmjager Average. A
21/10/23. Africa corps. Average Japanese. Average D

24/10/23. Late German. Vet. US Army. Average. A

26/10/23. Mot British. Vet. German. Average. A

31/10/23. Late German Vet. US Army. Average. A

02/11/23. Mot British. Vet. Early French. Average. D

07/11/23 Late German. Average. Late Russian. Veteran. D

09/11/23. Japanese. Vet. British. Average. A

16/11/23 Motorised. German average British. Average. D

21/11/23. US Marines. Average. Japanese. Vet. D

25/11/23. German. Average. French. Average. A
25/11/23. French. Average. German. Average. A
25/11/23. German. Average. British mot. Average. D

28/11/23. Japanese. Vet. US Marines. Average. D

30/11/23. EW German. Average. EW British. Average. Draw

14/12/23. German. Average. British. Average. D

19/12/23. Russian. Average. German. Average. A

21/12/23 French Average British Average D

Stewart
QUOTE

martin goddard · December 01, 2023, 07:49:54 AM

15 attacker wins
15 defender wins

Seems pretty good in terms of game balance outcome.
What we cannot monitor is company and commander skill/luck.

Of course these games are against a background of changing rules.

We would need about 2000 results with players swapping roles, armies etc. But this data is very useful I think.

martin

Colonel Kilgore · December 01, 2023, 09:19:30 AM

As we continue to log these results, we could also start to look at the "armies" themselves (accepting that there is a lot of scope for force selection within most lists) to see whether there are any clear winners or losers.

My guess is that there should not be, as tactics should be adjusted to suit the forces at hand. However, a force that is particularly low on key Assets may struggle, so such analysis could act as a check on compensatory points?

Simon

martin goddard · December 01, 2023, 09:53:18 AM

Yes Simon I believe there are better and worse armies.
This is a problem because I think we want all armies to be used with equal chances of success. Probably an impossible task?

My thoughts:-
The best overall army is probably the Russian one. SMGs, assault for 3.
The second best is probably the British. Cheap AT, good assets.
Third best is probably German. Good AT.
Fourth best is probably US. AT OK and good assets.

In lower places come Japanese, followed by Italians.

In lowest places come those with no/poor foot AT or poor tanks. Non conformists too.

martin

Colonel Kilgore · December 01, 2023, 11:57:05 AM

To which your fixed compensation points could be part of the answer, Martin?

Once everyone has bought a Russian WW2 army from you, of course

Simon

John Watson · December 01, 2023, 04:57:13 PM

I know it is only a snap shot sample that Stewart has but it is odd that the nation that Martin thinks has the best force, i.e. the Russians, only featured once in his list, I think, and lost at that. Strange that an army perceived as very good, and I agree with Martin on this, is not in favour with the players.
John

Colonel Kilgore · December 01, 2023, 05:18:49 PM

It might well depend on the make-up of the force involved? And the quality? Lots of Raw troops can be hard to handle, and they may have rifles rather than SMGs. Or maybe the player concerned was having an off day

It's probably wise not to read too much into these stats, but they make for some interesting conversations.

Simon

martin goddard · December 01, 2023, 05:50:31 PM

I think the Russians not being used much at the moment is influenced by the Putin war.
That is true for me at least.
Seems petty, but it makes me feel happier.
I will field mine as Ukrainians.

For myself I want to use a variety of companies in order to see how they work.
I will build a new company in 2024.

My possible thoughts are
1. Cossacks with Russian armour support.
2. Russian ski company. Might look odd in most scenery layouts.
3.Finnish. A bit like Russian or German though.
4. DAK. They look nice.
5. Hungarian. Turan tank looks good/powerful.

martin

Smiley Miley 66 · December 02, 2023, 10:00:32 AM

The Italians especially when you play them are quite hard to beat. When used aggressively they can be good !
Desert war period is my favourite as the war's super weapons haven't yet come into play, but some good vehicles have started filtering thru eventually! The best Qualities of the 3 Armies come out rather than their best "big" weapons ?
Has anyone played the Americans v DAK ? Lately ?
You are right about the Russians, but maybe as the war is dragging on, maybe we can start bringing the armies out ?
Miles

Sean Clark · December 02, 2023, 10:36:29 AM

Although I'm currently just finishing off my Pirates and I have an Ancient German army on route, PBI will feature next on the table. I have Russians, Americans and Germans for playtesting. I do have some 8th Army that I bought for the Crete day but they'll now form the start of a Desert Rats army. Their opponents will be Italians as I found some Bersaglieri (sp?). Quite why I have 3 packs of them I have no idea. Bought when they were first released many years ago. I'll mix them in with regular Italians for a 1941/42 army.

Colonel Kilgore · December 02, 2023, 10:51:27 AM

I too am going Italian. Having finished a CTV force in time for this year's SCW day, I am now bulking it out for PBI.

Simon

martin goddard · December 30, 2023, 08:33:42 AM

DATE ATTACKER Quality DEFENDER Quality WINNER
15/08/2023 Africa corps Average 8th Army Average A
16/08/2023 8th Army Average Africa corp. Average A
19/08/2023 Late war German Average Late war British Average D
21/08/2023 German Pz Grenadiers Average Late war US Average A
26/09/2023 Volkstrum Raw Late war British Average A
28/09/2023 Late war US Average Partisans Raw Draw
03/10/2023 Late war British Average Partisans Raw Draw
05/10/2023 Partisans Raw Late war British Average A
11/10/2023 Japanese Raw 14th Army Average A
12/10/2023 14th Army Average Russian Average D
17/10/2023 German Paras Average US Army Average D
18/10/2023 8th Army Average Italian Average D
19/10/2023 British Motorised Veteran Fallschirmjager Average D
21/10/23. US Army. Average. Late Germans Average D
21/10/23. Motorised British. Veteran Germans Average A
21/10/23. Africa corps. Average. Mot 8th Army Veteran A
21/10/23. 8th Army. Average. Late Germans Average D
21/10/23. Motorised British. Veteran Germans Average D
21/10/23. Mot 8th Army. Veteran Fallschirmjager Average A
21/10/23. Africa corps. Average Japanese. Average D
24/10/23. Late German. Veteran US Army Average A
26/10/23. Mot British. Veteran German Average A
31/10/23. Late German Veteran US Army Average A
02/11/23. Mot British. Veteran Early French Average D
07/11/23 Late German. Average. Late Russian. Veteran D
09/11/23. Japanese. Veteran British Average A
16/11/23 Motorised. German average British Average D
21/11/23. US Marines. Average. Japanese Veteran D
25/11/23. German. Average. French Average A
25/11/23. French. Average. German Average A
25/11/23. German. Average. British mot Average D
28/11/23. Japanese. Vet. US Marines. Average D
30/11/23. EW German. Average. EW British Average Draw
14/12/23. German. Average. British Average D
19/12/23. Russian. Average. German Average A
21/12/23 French Average British Average D
28/12/23 British Veteran German Average D

Stewart

John Watson · December 30, 2023, 10:41:48 AM

Interesting results.
Raw.
5 fights. 3 wins as attacker, 2 draws as defender. All opponents average.

Veteran.
14 fights. 6 wins, 5 losses as attacker, 2 wins, 1 loss as defender. All opponents average.

No Raw v Veteran fights.

Overall.
37 fights. 16 wins, as attacker. 18 wins as defender, 3 draws.
Does this mean that raw are the best, followed by veterans, or are the results skewed because the sample size is too small with the raw and the veterans? I leave you to decide.
John

John Watson · December 30, 2023, 11:05:28 AM

By nation.

UK 24 fights, 9 wins, 2 draws
Germany 26 fights, 12 wins, 1 draw
USA 8 fights, 2 wins, 1 draw
Japan 5 fights, 4 wins
Partisan 3 fights, 1 win, 2 draws
Russia 3 fights, 3 wins
France 3 fights, 2 wins
Italy 1 fight, 1 win

Motorized 9 fights, 4 wins No motorized v motorized yet.

Make of this what you will, but it appears that the less popular nations out perform the favourites. Again the sample size may be skewing the results.
John

Sean Clark · December 30, 2023, 11:11:20 AM

Average German defenders v Veteran Americans attacking - big German win.