RFCM

Thank you to all who have so far shown interest in my plan for some "PBI in Crete" games.

The idea is to:
- work out details before the end of this year
- make and paint stuff as necessary during the first half of 2020
- hold a trial day at Entoyment in September, to see whether any of this actually works
- run a Crete game at the 2020 Weymouth Weekend
- hold a proper Crete Day at Entoyment sometime in 2021 (80th anniversary) - I hope to have 3 different scenarios to run by then.

Entoyment currently have tables free on 5th, 19th, 26th of September 2020 (12th is Colours in Newbury). Could interested parties please let me know:
- if there is a clash with other events on any of the above three dates that I am unaware of
- which (if any) of these you could attend?

Simon I am free all weekends in September at the moment but I do get work at short notice so I will go with the majority


Stewart

Ben & I free apart from the 12th.

Dave

Sat 12th September 2020 is Newbury colours show (Saturday).

Apart from that I am there for all the weekends you mention Simon.

Simon, I am available so far for all the September dates for the Entoyment day.

Just say when.

Thanks all. I'm going for 26th September, and will let you know once Entoyment have confirmed.

I was just about it say I'm free for the second half of September so 26th works really well thanks.

Perfect! I've asked for 3 tables - if we don't have enough folk to fully play all of them, we should at least be able to get the toys out and discuss.

I'm working up a rather fuller briefing note of my thoughts so far, which I hope to mail out next week to all who have expressed an interest in this.

Yes please!

Quote from: Sean Clark on December 04, 2019, 01:23:39 AM
Yes please!

Don't panic Sean - you're in! For the avoidance of doubt, I will consider that anyone who's provided their availability (below) for the September playtest has "expressed interest".

In time-honoured RFCM fashion (which nearly auto-corrected to "fascism", interesting...) I then intend to follow a fairly autocratic process whereby people can give me ideas / comments / criticisms, and I will decide what I want to do with them. And then you can all blame me if you don't like the result. Is the plan still sounding good?

Your the boss on this one, we are here to help and advise and provide.
Can I suggest that you give certain people a table each and they can the organise and provide that table to your plans ? I know I am happy to do that. I am sure everyone is happy to chip in where needed and wanted ?
I assume we are going for a Mat and terrain templates ? Most being 12 x 6 as per normal game and maybe larger up to 2 ft x1 ft ? Say if required ?
I have a spare 6 x4 mat with no squares on it at all in the Mediterranean style, which I have yet to mark up.
If this is of use I will put it in the mix so to speak.
Miles

Thanks Miles,

Yes to mats: Stewart's ordering a bunch of 6' x 4' mats with grids, so no need to deface yours, I think. You may need it for that AK47 game!

I'm thinking of broadly normal templates (I went to keep everything close to PBI as written), but probably a few bigger ones too (e.g. Hill 107).

First task will be to align people with forces with tables - watch your Inbox next week!

Simon

Just to confirm that we're on - Peter at Entoyment has confirmed my booking of 3 tables for 26th September 2020.

Thames Simon, have put it in our diarys

Great stuff.

Ben and David

Is there a requirement for any Greek forces?

Sean,

I'm not aware of anyone who makes Greek forces (although I've not looked too hard). They'd also have limited reuse outside of the brief Greek and Crete campaigns.

As such, I'm working up the scenarios not to require them.

Indicative forces and table layouts will be in next week's briefing note, for discussion before we all commit too much time to making stuff. Or that's the plan (and we all know what happens to the best-laid plans...).

Simon

There is a Greek company in the PBI Architect book. You could use it in the normal PBI game if built

Stewart

Irregular miniatures make 15mm WW2 Greek

Stewart

Well if someone is willing to paint one up, I could readily include it in the scenario. In the past, I  have found Irregular to look nice when painted but to be a pain to clean up, although that may have changed.

I was fancying doing something a bit different but happy to go with whatever you need.

In other words if you need/want a Greek company in the game I will do it  ;)

From what I can gather the Old Greek army had, Italian, French and British influences in it, cross between WW1/2 uniforms. So you could cobble together something out of PP range without to much trouble.
Miles

The Greek army had rather distinctive helmets, but I've seen a photo from Crete with them wearing a mix of stuff.

Whatever you do, Sean: I'd stick with little Piggies :)

Always Simon!

As an early Christmas present to myself, I've bought the Beevor book. It's a story I am unfamiliar with.

That's a good book, Sean - I'm halfway through it at the moment.

One thing I can't easily reconcile is physical differences in the maps between that and Tim Saunders' Battleground Europe book.

And anything that is currently a military installation (there's quite a lot) is blurred out by Google Maps.

But that just makes my poetic licence in the scenarios easier to justify.

Simon,
When do you plan to publish the OOB for each scenario?
There are 5 North Africa mats on order (for Stewart, Simon,Colin, Dave, Miles) if that helps your planning.

Stewart

It's great to see such enthusiasm ;) - as promised, I'll get a first draft out next week.

This will include an outline of 3 scenarios - with their forces and table layout - with the aim of taking on board comments and removing any gross errors before we start allocating responsibilities for each table (as Miles has suggested, assuming people are up for that) and finalising the forces we'll each want / need to build.

I may well not rise to 5 different scenarios (and I've only booked 3 tables for September), but we could always repeat a couple of them in the shorter term.

Sounds like you will have it finished by the end of the year

Yep - all over by Christmas  :D

Suggestion is to do 3 tables worth and if more people show commitment then you can always expand. 3 tables is 6 people which is the average for commitment.
If you want have room for expansion? As you might have gathered it is expensive doing this, in time and Money. At the end of the day it's about Time and Money Well Spent and of Course a great Game.
With the tables and getting the Forces sorted etc. Delegate tasks in hand, hence why I said about the tables.
One of my specialties is Terrain so I am more than happy to help out on Terrain.
Miles

I was actually thinking 4 people per table (due to the size and number of troops involved) for 2 of the 3 scenarios I'm working on so far. I thought that Arnhem worked well with 2 per side on a 6 x 4 table - it keeps things moving along nicely and is much more sociable.

We can see how this all works out as we progress through testing.

Ok. 4 per table that makes 12 people, on 3 tables. Just trying to look at the man management. People do drop out etc. 6-8 is our usual number.
Like I said before make it for what you have, then it can be expanded nearer the time.
As Martin has done for the 1940 PBI day.
List and delegate, as and when you have your initial plans laid down.
Miles

I've emailed out Warning Order #1 to all those who I think have expressed an interest.

If you're expecting a mail but haven't got one, please let me know.

I'm happy to take feedback and comments either here in public, or by mail to the group, or by mail message just to me.

And do please let me know if you think anything I'm suggesting is nuts!

Simon

Smoke and HE Markers myself and Martin have the same Markers. Converted trees. Which we can get more of if needed. I have 8 of each.
Miles.

Thanks Miles.

I should also have pointed out more clearly that there is much still to decide - deployment of troops; timing of reinforcements; detailed composition of each battalion (aka PBI platoon), placement of lower-level scenery such as olive orchards, etc. I'll include more such details in the next iteration, once (if?) folk are happy with where I'm heading so far.

Simon

Since no-one has yet told me that I'm on a hiding to nothing (and spurred on by the enthusiastic response to date), I've been continuing my plans for Crete and have just emailed out Warning Order #2.

If you were expecting to receive this and didn't, please shout!

Simon

Like I said before, we have PBI 1940 and Beachead to discuss many of items on a one to one conference style. Probably 1915 and Bovington to iron out some of the niggle points. And anywhere else we all meet up this year too.
Miles

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i1psc362dealylo/2120c64.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/i1psc362dealylo/2120c64.jpg?dl=0)

I'm really struggling to post images direct to the forum now that TinyPic has gone  :-\

But here is a picture of Maleme that will help me for table 1. The white dots are German FJ!

Sean,
I use Imgur https://imgur.com/ (https://imgur.com/) you don't have to set up an account but it is easier to keep track of your photos if you do.

Martin Buck

@Martin - I totally agree - very easy to use and bulk-upload photos too. I've posted some summary guidance on its use somewhere on this Forum (which I'll find and can enhance if anyone needs it)

@Sean: I'd not seen that photo before, or such a clear view of the airfield (better than you can get nowadays from Google Maps, as it's deliberately blurred for national security reasons). I can safely say that the airfields in the Crete game won't be quite as big or detailed as that! Great shot of those nicely-spaced parachute canopies, presumably fairly early on in the proceedings.

Martin, Simon, I agree IMGUR is a good place to put your pictures Sean.

I've been into Imgur, but can't find a way to link the photo other than 'Copy Link' which obviously doesn't work.

Hi Sean,
You need the fifth one down labelled "BBCode (message boards & forums)", you dont need to use the insert image button as it already has the [image tags] in the code you copy and paste.

I hope this helps.

Martin Buck

Thanks Martin, I'll give it a go.

I suspect the problem is trying to do it from my phone. I have the IMGUR app but there is no reference to Bbcode, only Copy Link.

Sean,

That link might still work, if you put "[ img ]" in front of it and "[ /img ]" (omit the spaces in each case!) after it?

Simon

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F282076240669 (https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F282076240669)

Gents,

This is the link to Fat Frank's. It's £7.50 For 4 feet of desert road. Seems pretty reasonable to me. I'm happy to buy whatever is needed for Table 1.

Very very good value methinks.

That's very good of you, thanks Sean.

Dave and Miles - what do you think of this product? I'm happy to invest as required for Tables 2 and 3.

Quote from: martin goddard on December 16, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
Very very good value methinks.

Pretty darn good - especially their postage rates :)

I have lots of sets from Fat frank in all colours. He made the complete road and river system for a 'Mons' WW1 game that Chris and I put on at Fisticufs a few years ago.
Really good and very cheap.

Stewart

That's good to hear, Stewart, thanks.

And I'm delighted that you have now posted a picture of your true festive identity - outed at last.

Stewart. Wear that on Weds :)

Hi Simon

I like the look of the roads, fits the job well.

Do you want to split it if I buy for table 2 and you buy for table 3? Or if you will use the whole amount over to you.

Let me know.

Dave

Thanks Dave.

If you're (genuinely) OK to sort out Table 2, that would be great (if note, let me know what I should buy), and I'll work out Table 3 with Miles.

Thanks,

Simon

Hi Simon

More than happy to,should go nicely with the new mat Stewart is sourcing. Just means Ben gets no pocket money for a while 😂

Dave

I am happy to do table 3, yes we can discuss details early next year. The roads look good.
The other that might be an idea on all three tables. Is base colours  on templates ? They should all be the same colours across all3 tables ? As well as highlight colours ?
Miles

Miles. Totally agree re. template base colours. I think I made a plea for that in WO #1. Vallejo Iraqui Sand with Ivory highlight works for me!
Simon

Then that's what I will use....although may go to B&Q to get a colour match as painting lots of templates with a bottle of Vallejo might get expensive. 

Table 2 roads are ordered, please do not change minds now  ;)

Looking forward to being able to start painting again, going to have a few Anzac's in their soft hats so they stick out - looking like Feb/March when I come out of plaster!

Dave

Quote from: Sean Clark on December 18, 2019, 11:11:11 AM
Then that's what I will use....although may go to B&Q to get a colour match as painting lots of templates with a bottle of Vallejo might get expensive.

Sean, that's exactly what I did. It's amazingly cheap that way compared to Vallejo, although not something you'd want to use on your figures!

Quote from: Wardy64 on December 18, 2019, 11:36:52 AM
Table 2 roads are ordered, please do not change minds now  ;)

It's OK Dave - those rubber roads are now set in stone :)

I'll work out with Miles how we divvy things up for Table 3.

In the New Year I'll reissue updated summaries and include my plans for deploying the forces (following the broad principles that the Allies set up, Germans drop in, Allies get first turn to try to mop up before the enemy can get a foothold).

Simon

That's a lot of bottles for a 12 x6 template ??? I was thinking dulux or BQ 1/2 litre or litre type paint ?

Quote from: Smiley Miley 66 on December 19, 2019, 04:17:49 AM
That's a lot of bottles for a 12 x6 template ??? I was thinking dulux or BQ 1/2 litre or litre type paint ?

That's why Sean and I get B&Q to mix up sample pots to match the Vallejo colours. I took in PP bases painted in the appropriate colours and they scanned them to get a perfect colour match.

I've just found a previous thread on these match pots:
https://rulesforcommonman.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1147.msg8639#msg8639
The brand is Valspar and I paid £3 for 236ml pots to my colour specification.
A single Vallejo bottle is heading towards that price nowadays!
Simon

Thanks for that Simon. I'll get to B&Q after the holidays.

But Vallejo pots can be squirted across the table (useful?). I will get my coat......

 ;D

That's happened to me on occasion Martin!

As per Stuart's earlier e mail, Tiny War games are now unable to fulfil our order due to certain issues!

We now need to consider what to use in place of the mats that had been ordered. The good thing is we have time on our hands to come up with plan b.

Dave

Dave there is lots of time, I would suggest leave the mat issue unit Beachhead (8 Feb) if tiny mats have sorted their problems out they are due to be there.

Stewart

Stuart
Will keep my fingers crossed, hopefully he will deliver on the sales.

Dave

Good news that they will be there was I'm planning on ordering my own mat so can hopefully collect from them there. .

We can always go to Deep cut studios, if Tiny mats cannot fulfil our order ? Be a bit more expensive.
Miles

We could use the battlefront double sided mats (desert/brown) Levellers has 1, I think mine is still 6x4 (not cut down) and I think Martin has 1, anyone else got one we could use.

Stewart

http://cigarboxbattlestore.bigcartel.com (http://cigarboxbattlestore.bigcartel.com)


Cigarbox have a 20% sale on at the moment and have a nice looking mat called 'arid' which looks very nice. It'sisted at $74.99 but with 20% off us $60. With the current resurgence in the pound against the dollar this might be worth considering.

Their mats are like a fleece and we'd have to mark our own grid. Sale ends soon too.

Although listed as 6x4 they are actually 76" x 54" so plenty of room!

I have their Waterloo mat, very nice but arranged to pick it up at Historicon show a few years ago when I planed to visit. Postage to the UK was very expensive.

We have plenty of time, don't panic, wait until new year and see what happens with Tiny mats, he may sort his problems out or sell (that's what he has said) and we can deal with the new owner.
Ships only run a ground, not sinking , bands still playing, have another gin & tonic and relax, Xmas is coming.

It seems a shame to sell up as the mats are nice when you eventually get them. He may want to change or retrain his staff, though, as the reprinting and resending of mats (between 2 and 4 times for each one of theirs I have) must seriously erode profit margins.

Received my rubber roads today, so a good quick turn around. They are as described on the tin, cheap, cheerful and practical for war gaming, maybe a tad narrow but given the price that may be a bit harsh.

Would suit any desert type game through the ages really.

Dave

Thank you for the update, Dave: "cheap, cheerful and practical " sounds spot-on for what we need here!

Apologies for the temporary interruption to service on the Crete briefings. Most of the next missive is done, and some new mechanisms worked out for comment, but these last couple of weeks I've been too busy as nursemaid and childminder to a flu-ridden household to complete things.
I hope to resume service in the next 10 days.
Simon

Thanks Simon, no worries, plenty of time

Standing by for orders....if just coming through the other side of some medieval form of the plague myself!

Simon, sorry to hear you are laid low.
After our Ardennes game next month, I hope we re-cycle some if the winter scenery for the warm  Mediterranean. Miles is interested in using the steep hills for our  scenario. Also, I have some walled field templates that can be re-coloured and planted up as olive groves. Ah, pass the Retsina.....

Thanks Mike - glad to hear of your efforts to increase the sustainability of the day. I will see whether Greta is available to sail in and award the prizes.

Simon, am I too late to express an interest in this? I have Greeks available if required as I am painting them up at present. I should finish the current batch shortly and will have 4 tankers, 4 infantry platoons, MG and mortar support and artillery. All in accordance with PBI.

John, you are certainly not too late. I am late in my next warning order to commanders, but can easily add you in as we're at least one player short.

I don't currently have a scenario involving Greeks, though... I may be able to change this later on, but I'd rather continue with what I've started for now, and what we have folk lined up to paint / build in terms of troops and scenery.

I'll include you in the next issue, you can then see where things are at and maybe we can have a chat afterwards?

Simon

Thanks Simon.

I've just emailed out Warning Order #03 to all those who have so far signed up for the playtest day in September.

If you were expecting a copy but have not received it, do please shout!

Simon

As it was dry yesterday, took advantage of the weather to spray Peter Pig and Flames of war British and Commonwealth figures for my 'digger' force for Crete. Twenty five pounders, Matilda's, and command will be done during the week, then on with the painting. Have dug out some other 8th army vehicles, to develop more of a British force for Ben and I to do a British v Italian PBI set up. The Italian tanks are taking shape, as are their support vehicles although the infantry are lagging behind!

Has anyone a picture of the Crete Olive Oil factory? Can't find one on line or in any of my books.

Dave and Ben

Dave,

I'm afraid not - will have to check my books again.

I did find this blogspot with a building they'd used for the Olive Oil Factory, which looks plausible: http://cirencester-wargames.blogspot.com/2018/12/crete-1941-week-6-attack-on-dzs.html?m=0

My guess is that no-one is going to argue too much with a substantial building - probably broadly rectangular with some Mediterranean tiles on top!

I'll post here if I find anything else.

Simon

How are other folk getting on with their Crete preparation (I know we have until September, so no immediate panic!)?

Simon

Simon
I agree a rectangle shape with the med tile look is about right.

Dave

Just starting the Flames of War 25 pounders, its a really nice box set with resin bases, forward observers, command and even a despatch rider with message. Will add in a few macho Peter Pig gunners to vary the crew.

Does anyone know if the Matilda tanks had any specific camo, or just a plain desert yellow?

Dave & Ben

There was a camouflage scheme (relatively subtle in black and white!) on the photos I've seen.

I'm struggling to insert links here, but if you Google "Matilda Crete" you'll see many of the images that crop up on books on the battle - looks like a bit of green sprayed over desert yellow to me, although others are no doubt better informed than me!

Simon

Hi Simon
Managed to find a colour picture, its sand/light green and an olive green. Not quite the 3 colour pattern used in the desert, given the terrain in Crete it must have been adapted!

Dave & Ben

Well, the first planned date in September may or may not go ahead as intended, depending on The Virus, but planning and preparation continue.

Thanks to Bob (Antioch) - he has posted today on the wonders of 3D printing - we should soon have Cretan buildings for Tables 1 and 3 (sorry Dave - the Olive Oil Factory is still with you!) and a rather fab bridge for Sean for Table 1.

How are others getting on with figures and scenery?

Think I'm good for my share of desert rats. I have repainted the bases on all that I have and ordered a few extra figures which will get painted up if I can spare time from my busy schedule of thumb twiddling!

I have my Mountain (DAK) troops ready for the 3rd scenario. Colin and I are comparing notes on who has transports, guns etc.
For the terrain, I am experimenting with the winter snow fields converted to olive groves.
Simon, please remind me of the Valejo paint colour to use?

Michael,

The recommended basing colours are Vallejo Iraqi Sand, with some Vallejo Ivory dry-brushed, please.

I used this approach for my Western forces and terrain, and was pleased with the results.

Thanks!

Simon

I think I have enough 8th army to act as Australian and I have Matilda 2's. I halos have a pair of 25lb guns and tows if any body needs to borrow them.
Need to buy some German Paras , waiting to see if any new sculpts turn up.

Stewart

Quote from: Stewart 46A on March 22, 2020, 03:03:06 PM
Need to buy some German Paras , waiting to see if any new sculpts turn up.

Likewise. Anyone on here know a good sculptor?  ;)

I have Afrika Korps, mainly in tropical green, which will pass as German mountain troops if required.

German paras will happen. Just not quite yet. Other tasks are in front of them.
Hope that gives enough paint time?  What is the painting schedule?
Let me know :)



martin

Thank you for the confirmation, Martin.

Painting schedule - as soon as the figures are available  😄.

It would be nice to be able to start sometime in April, but we may all have rather more time at home to paint if we're not allowed to go anywhere for our summer hols...

Simon

I would be happy if the new Paras arrived in July, leaves August to paint them ready for their assault in September


Stewart

I can't paint that quickly 🙁

Anybody advise on a colour scheme for the German glider DFS 230 please?


Stewart

There's a Crete scheme one here: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234985613-dfs-230-glider-crete-1941/ (https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234985613-dfs-230-glider-crete-1941/) with light upper surfaces, for later schemes there's these: https://www.emodels.co.uk/rs-models-1-72-dfs-230-unternehemen-rosselsprung-92187-plastic-model-kit.html (https://www.emodels.co.uk/rs-models-1-72-dfs-230-unternehemen-rosselsprung-92187-plastic-model-kit.html)

I hope these are help.

Regards,
Martin Buck

That's a good site, Martin - this additional page might well be handy:

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235057738-dfs230-colours/

Simon

And another..

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/DFS-230-glider.html

It seems as you moved from 1940 into 41...on some gliders the blue sides were also speckled with the dark green as well. In most of my books it also seems to not be all of them, prob more of an individual unit approach.

Bob

Thanks guys, I found some of those sites but a mash of all colours with no definitive scheme.
Simon I have two for your game and intend to a dark green upper with light blue sides and under wings., unless you want other colours


Stewart

Thanks Stewart - you now know at least as much as I do about their colours - sounds great!

Simon

Ok a Simon,

Stewart

One thing I've particularly appreciated about this Forum is the chance to "virtually" meet and speak to people from around the globe, and share experiences of our shared hobby.

The Crete games day in (2021 remember - the September 2020 event, if it is still allowed to go ahead, is just a rehearsal for the 80th anniversary game!) has got more folk than I could have imagined involved and contributing from the UK (and Northern France), and is shaping up to be a great community effort.

One thing that I hadn't quite solved was the buildings for the towns. So imagine my delight when Bob (Antioch) got in touch to offer the services of his 3D printer - from the far-flung reaches of Canada for anything we might be needing for the game. So we looked at a catalogue of files that he'd bought, and I happened to mention the need for a girder bridge, and then Bob asked about markers... All of which resulted in Bob's kind donation to the cause of a batch of goodies that crossed the pond (fully intact) in a mere 10 days, virus notwithstanding.

The pieces loosely put together:

(https://i.imgur.com/lUOpG8E.jpg)

And their constituent parts:

(https://i.imgur.com/RCKwfeM.jpg)

So this is a big public "thank you" to Bob for his public-spirited generosity. I think I know what I'll be painting next once I've chugged through my current batch of WW1 footsloggers :)

Simon

They look great Simon, I am sure will look even better after you get to work on them.


Stewart

Very nice.
I am very impressed by those explosions.
Maybe after you have pianted them Simon you can re -photo them?


martin

Great Bob the buildings do look rather good. Simon's just got to do them with the paint job and the interiors.

I'll have to look you up when I am next in Vancouver to visit my son. He lives in the down-town area a couple of streets away from the railway station.

Martin,

Those are the ones Anatolly mentioned/showed in his Russian civil war write up. There are actually more coming over donation wise ...but if personally you want any ....just drop me a note. 😀

Bob

Quote from: Leslie BT on March 31, 2020, 09:33:40 PM
Great Bob the buildings do look rather good. Simon's just got to do them with the paint job and the interiors.

I'll have to look you up when I am next in Vancouver to visit my son. He lives in the down-town area a couple of streets away from the railway station.

Feel free to.... further out in the valley.

Bob

My friend's father recently died.  He was a Australian veteran of the Crete campaign captured there, interned in Italy and repatriated through Spain due to ill health.  Some time ago I had started on a Crete table and forces.  Being in lockdown I find myself with lots of extra time to again take up this project.  Where can I find details of the scenarios and OOBs referred to in this thread so that I can expand this project for use locally once restrictions are eased?  Regards Alan

Alan,
I will email you a copy of the current plans later today. And I should probably copy in Pbeccas too, as another interested party!
Simon

Hi guys,
Here is some Crete wargame eye candy from the Society of Gentlemen Gamers 2009 Crete big game. Played in 20mm using Rapid Fire rules.
http://societyofgentlemengamers.com/viewtopic.php?p=259#p259 (http://societyofgentlemengamers.com/viewtopic.php?p=259#p259)

The game was set up on a Friday and was played over the weekend.

Enjoy and best wishes,
Martin Buck

Martin (the elder  :D) - that is just lovely - so well done.

It's huge and there are some great little touches - these gentlemen do do things with style!

Lots of ideas in there - including for Dave & Ben's ice cream Olive Oil factory.

Many thanks for posting!

Simon

Thanks Martin, looks a very good put together game


Stewart

Where was the Olive factory??????

Dave

I meant stylistically - I have yet to spot it on those tables :)

That said, I think one of the 2-storey buildings with the four arches at ground level could fit the bill?

Such as the one in the foreground here:

(https://i.imgur.com/xAH1jep.jpg)

or in the upper-left here:

(https://i.imgur.com/CYblGRj.jpg)

Excellent! We like this a lot.

Don't get your hopes up Mike - ours will be nothing like as grand as this. Except for your olive groves, of course  ;)

Simon

Is September date still on at the moment Simon? :-\

Still on at the moment, Martin!

Who knows what will happen by the end of September, but at least we should all have our toys ready by then. If need be, we'll reschedule, but I need to keep this as a focus or else I'll lose my painting mojo!

Simon

We can play in our old NBC kit.

Dave

Sorry Simon not much progress on mine as its all still stuck in the UK!

I've started painting up some more British infantry.
John

Does anyone have a JU52 transport plane?
I think AIM  in the US do one?
I can buy a couple if that helps?


martin

I was looking into getting one from old glory, I have two DFS 230 gliders


Stewart

I have one good old glory one, and a broken old glory one. The first came smashed and the second was a replacement.

Dave

Faller make a plastic kit of one, if you can get hold of it ?
Miles

I have a single Zvezda 1/200 model  (all Entoyment had at the time - I had hoped to get more...) I was thinking of suspending from the ceiling. There's not going to be much room on the tables for many planes...

Simon

Would there be space on a games table for a JU52 Simon? If you say yes then i will see if I can get a Ju52 1/100th. Not crucial but it would look nice??

martin :)

If you wanted to put a model one or two down for show. There are 2 German companies. Faller and Dahlmann which both make them in plastic. £20-40 on average for a 1/100th scale. Which is nearly as expensive as 1/48th scale one....
Like As been said before Old Glory do a resin type of one. There are smaller ones available to "over fly" the table for a lot less.
Miles

At 1:100, they're going to be pretty big. The wingspan was 29m, so at 1:100 this is 29cm. And they were 19m long (so 19cm), meaning they'd encroach on 4 grid squares...

I'd thought that Stewart's DFS 230s would work crashed in the Maleme dry river bed, as these were only 11.2m long (wingspan c. 22m).

I'm struggling to see how we'd get 1:100 Ju 52s to fit on the table?

Simon

Yes it would be jolly big.
Maybe too large for the game table?
None the less it wold look iconic?


martin

It would look iconic, if a tad big.

And maybe bring another meaning to "attack on the left wing"?

I'll see if I can get more 1/200 scale to have floating above the table. Some Stukas would be good too...

Simon

Zvezda make a Ju 87 but 1/144 scale would that look to small?


Stewart

I believe that I have a Zvedza JU52 knocking about somewhere.
John

Quote from: Stewart 46A on May 18, 2020, 09:17:15 AM
Zvezda make a Ju 87 but 1/144 scale would that look to small?


Stewart

I have a 1/144 Ju 87 currently dangling from the ceiling of the children's room - it's a biggish beast!

I was thinking of having it above the table, rather than on it - either hooked to the ceiling some way (e.g. using magnets if Entoyment uses steel strips in their false ceiling) or on a stand. Same for the Ju 52s.

Just a thought...

Simon

Hi,
A bit more inspiration for you. Stolen from Simon R on the Society of Gentlemen Gamers forum http://societyofgentlemengamers.com/posting.php?mode=quote&f=23&p=416 (http://societyofgentlemengamers.com/posting.php?mode=quote&f=23&p=416):

Airfix gun, AB figures. Captured Bofors, Crete 1941.

(https://i.imgur.com/dqKg4ep.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BRzYVBS.jpg)

Taking inspiration from this image.

(https://i.imgur.com/k9q7N04.jpg)

Best wishes,
Martin

That's nice, Martin!

"Antioch" Bob would like us to have a Bofors on the big hill - probably best without a crew so that it doesn't get confusing in the fighting - any offers from those of you who have signed up?

Simon

Nice model.... 

Simon....yes a bofors, manned by new zealanders with real shells too....😇😇.  I mean you really can't let those luftwaffe boys have it all there own way.

Embarrassing having a Kiwi crew if the hill gets captured - one really can't have them firing on their own side...

So, either a crew-less Bofors, or a spare one with German para crew might be needed?

Simon

Simon I'll get a bofers for the hill.
If you want crew let me know before I order my Paras from Martin


Stewart

Thanks Stewart.

I think a crewless gun, as a monument on the hill (which I've now made - I'm just debating styles and colour of flocking with Miles, who has clearly missed his vocation as a landscape gardener :) ) regardless of the ebb and flow of battles would be good, unless Bob objects?

Simon

No i will just tighten my teams khaki colour shirt & go sit back down in the bleachers...

Remember the Bofors was sold and used by a lot of countries in many guise across the world.
So it can be crewed by any nation.
Miles

How many Bofors guns are there going to be in the game Simon?  Four or five seems to be the necessary amount? :)

martin

I think you're spot-on, Martin. They can then help take on the Panzer Division I'm just finishing off. I reckon, on a 6-foot table, I can just about fit them all in side-by-side.

Sounds about right to you?

Simon

Don't forget we need 350 JU52's and 150 JU 87's


Stewart

I think you have the "vision" Simon. It will be of interest to "flames" players who want to re- create the Crete panzer battles.
Looking forward to it. Keerosh, kapaow, knang! Awesome going forward! :)

martin

My son also has a rather nice Minotaur model - we could cover the Weird World War with that too?

The minotaur thing....interesting. ;)

Another YouTube documentary located.  Parts 1 and 2 covering Greece and Crete.  The Crete stuff starts in part 2 in the second link at the 5.45 mark.  One of the Aussies vets said he saw tanks.

https://youtu.be/gbCqsfe4JqY

https://youtu.be/0Enyj8D6Eqs

Many thanks for posting, Paul.

I'm finding myself with so many videos to watch, and so little time!

Simon

If it helps I can recommend some videos not to rush and see?
1. The police academy series.
2. Cold Mountain
3. The Patriot?

Recommended war films ,if you have the time

1. Fireball XL5 boxed set
2. Last of the Mohicans (again)
3.Ulzana's raid
4. Rocky Horror
5. Apocalypse now (redux) (again  no pun).
6. Apocalypto
7. Pale rider
8. Charge of the light brigade (just for the acting)
9. Ice cold in Alex
10. Jo Jo rabbit


comments?

martin

Martin - you're not helping here  :)

But I think you probably meant to include Braveheart in the list of must-see historical masterpieces?

But this has nothing to do with Crete. Maybe we need a Minotaur-themed viewing list: Clash of the Titans, Necropolis, Hercules in the Maze of the Minotaur...?

I like the Police academy series
I think American police are wonderful

Stewart

Fireball XL5 wow!

Also The Z Cars BBC double CD box set.

Cross of Iron ( for the irony ...)
Zulu and Zulu Dawn ( for the Zulus and some great accapella singing)

Help - someone's hijacked my thread!

No flight marshal onboard?

Stewart

I wish I had the time. Some of us actually Work as per normal.......
Must admit listening more to music these days rather than TV
Miles

So, how is the preparations for the Crete day coming Simon?

I've only just got around to restarting to read Beevor. And I've now planned my first order for the FJ.

Shaping up nicely thanks, Sean.

We have the cloths, the roads, the hills (just a little flocking to go) and buildings (need assembly and painting - and I'm waiting on Ben & Dave to finish their ice cream factory too).

Folk seem to have a bunch of Allied gear - now those of us who signed up for Jerry are being spoiled with Martin's latest offerings.

I have a few more ideas to help fill in the gaps in the current scenario rules.

I think I want the lockdown to last long enough to give me the time to paint, and then to ease off in time to allow us all to meet up and play.

What could go wrong?

Simon

The October Partizan has been cancelled.

I'm getting more pessimistic of any gaming events this year going ahead. Our club has taken the decision to remain closed for another 8 weeks.

Yup - could be a little touch-and-go, but Stewart and I are busy painting our German Paras and we have the bulk of the terrain and opposition available now.

So, as soon as we can all meet up, we should have the wherewithal to test the scenarios.

If not September, then maybe WWW in November, or early next year?

I need to keep some kind of faith to maintain my painting mojo!

Simon

Agreed. It will happen, just when is the question.

Colin and I are playing our first post-Covid game at Entoyment next Tuesday. The upstairs gaming floor is only 2/3 in use and the tables seem well-spaced for safety. I will report back to the Forum on how the venue is running and perhaps we could consider booking the whole floor for our Crete game in September.
What does the team think?
Mike

What game are you playing Mike?
Simon has been talking to Entoyment o as its baby I would wait for his thoughts


Stewart

That is a very good thought, Mike.

Can you please report back on the situation around the cafe and toilet areas downstairs?

I'm assuming all players need to be masked, as they're in a shop / indoor space?

Taking the whole space upstairs would be a small price to pay for peace of mind, and also add a little to Entoyment's depleted coffers.

Simon

Stewart,
We are playing WW2 PBI, Colin is fielding his Russians vs my Germans.
I will report back to Simon on the Entoyment option.
Mike

Thanks Mike, have a good game.


Stewart

Hope you enjoyed your game Mike with Colin.
We are well here but their have been flareups in Brittany and the Spanish border is difficult.
We have seen lots of incomers this past month, and no problems here as yet.
Everyone wears masks or visors.  135 euro fine for the wearer and the business owner!

Crete is that open or is it still a closed island?

Do you have any plans for the Tavronitis Bridge ?  I have some DFS-230 gliders which should be painted up by the end of August.

Thanks Si.

I have a 3D-printed girder span courtesy of Antioch Bob, and Sean is making the river Bank that will form the left-hand edge of the Maleme table.

Would you like to be included in the circulation list for the next iteration of the scenarios and special rules?

Simon

As to the wider Crete stuff. I am happy to help proof read and provide some kit if needed. I have four gliders and a pair of Bofors.  Our company offices are at Tower park so a weekend in Poole/Ashley Cross in September is possible but only as an observer, I haven't played PBI for ages.

I was looking for a model of the bridge myself. And someone very kindly has designed one for me after I asked about it on one of the 3D printing groups.  He is extremely talented .....I asked last night and he had knocked this up by this morning.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yfWp44P_B0w/XyV-4QRzufI/AAAAAAAARQA/n4r8lVrPKzQ30V2PTnRtOIxezusglGkLwCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/3D%2BBridge.jpg)

It will be a publicly available file (I hope).

Si,

That is indeed impressive work!

Simon

So Mike whats happening at Entoyment  after your game with Colin.

How are they managing for gamers?

It does not look like I will be over before next year.  Its all becoming too complicated.

Gentlemen,

The time is fast approaching for a go/no go decision on the Crete playtest day, currently planned to be held at Entoyment on Saturday 26th September.

Big Mike has kindly done some close-up reconnaissance, having recently played there with Colin, and (gently, I hope - I have no reason to believe illicit methods were employed) interrogated the management.

To summarise Mike's report:
- the Entoyment management is more than happy for our event to go ahead as booked
- we could take the whole upstairs room from 09:00 to 18:00 for £80, thus isolating us from the other occupants of the shop (other than for refreshment and calls of nature)
- we could respect social distancing on the upper floor if we had 8 players spread across 4 tables
- masks are mandatory in the shop below, other than when eating or drinking
- the shop itself is likely to be busy, and social distancing "down below" may well be dubious
- at a recent Warhammer event, all players were provided with clear visors - we could do the same ting

An event of some kind on 26th is therefore definitely feasible, if sufficient people are up for it.

On the Crete specifics:
- thanks to Stewart's order earlier this year, we should have enough mats to play on, and I've done the hills, airstrips and buildings (other than Ben & Dave's ice cream factory) for the first 2 tables: we should be able to gather enough scenery for the other bits and bobs
- we can probably cobble together enough 8th Army and assorted German stand-ins for most of the forces

On the downside:
- we know that some of our number (including Dave & Ben, and Les) won't be able to make September or indeed any time this year
- Mike wouldn't feel comfortable with more than 2 people at any given table, but 2 out of the 3 scenarios call for 2 people per side, given the size of the table and forces involved
- my family is pretty uncomfortable with the whole idea of this going ahead in September, given the uncertainty about the current prevalence and likely further spread of the virus once people come back from their holidays, children go back to school and more of those who are still fortunate enough to have jobs return to them.

I'm really torn. I don't want to let down those that have been busily painting stuff (particularly the lovely new paras that the upcoming campaign anniversary - and indeed this games day - have inspired Martin to sculpt) in time for this test day, and yet this does all feel a little bit soon to be gathering as a sizeable group given the current state of the pandemic. There is nothing particularly special about the current date, other than it was one that we all thought we'd be able to make when we discussed things last November (before anyone had even heard of Covid-19)! The playtest and actual games day will in any case go ahead some time: if not on 26th September, then we'll have more time to complete our forces and scenery, while allowing the rest of our number to join in the fun.

So, I really would welcome thoughts from those that have signed up for the Crete day(s) about what you would like to do regarding 26th September, please - that's Martin, Stewart, Mike, Miles, Sean, Les, Ben & Dave and John.

Many thanks,

Simon

I am happy to swing both ways on this one Simon.
If I were to give a preference, i would say "delay".
If it goes ahead then that is fine too. Maybe the room would be closed to non players??

This is a bit like the D day decision.
martin :-\

Simon,
At the moment  I am happy to play on the 26th but as you have said the virus is on the increase and further restrictions may be put in place when holiday makers go home and kids go back to school.
It is only a game after all and healthcomes first.
Can we delay until late October?
We could even use the WWW in November to play test .
I know it isn't a definite yes or no but following Martins thread , you are Eisenhower, the decision is yours. 

Stewart

I am open minded on this. As things stand I would be happy to proceed, but if things deteriorate then I would have reconsider. My red line is that I will not wear a mask for more than about 15 minutes at a time and so if this became mandatory then I would have to drop out. If you want to run it at a later date I am fine with that. I have Desert Rats for some of the scenarios and could substitute Greeks if we are short.

On the subject of the virus though (and this is based on no scientific knowledge whatever) I believe that the potency of Covid-19 will decline over this winter. That is not to say that there will not be an increase in cases, but I think it will be less deadly. After this winter I think cases will drop considerably and by winter 2021 Covid-19 will be similar to SARS virus. It will not have been cured but it will be not more virulent than seasonal flu. The difficulty may come with persuading certain groups of society to return to normal (whatever that is).
Just my thoughts.
John

Thank you for your thoughts so far, chaps. I look forward to hearing from the others.

Simon

Simon

As I understand it the 26th September is a dress rehearsal for the main event next year so hopefully we will have been through the worst of this by then. Given the amount of work some people have put into this it would be a shame if the rehearsal event is poorly attended not because people are not interested but because they have health concerns. I'm not around on 26th so probably have a bit of a vested interest in this being postponed, is there the possibility of different groups trying out the tables one Saturday at different locations just to see how it works and then trying the full rehearsal later this year or early next year (pandemic permitting). In many ways the bit I enjoy most about RFCM events is the social aspect and I can't help thinking this will be reduce by the need to social distance.

I must admit that I would not be interested in attending an event if I had to wear a face mask all day, wearing them at work for relatively short periods is bad enough. I have played a couple of one to one games over the last month and as long as players are sensible, resisting the urge to move the opponents figures for them, have and use hand gel - kissing the opponent is strictly prohibited - then gaming is possible.

My vote then is to postpone - but I have vested interest :'(

Chris

Hi Chaps

Unfortunately Ben and I will not be in this year, as per my previous jottings. I think this needs to be a call for the majority, on whether it goes ahead or is delayed.

Going forward, work wise I have gone back to the colours so will be on call weekends from November.

Dave & Ben

At present, the way things are I will not be attending the event.  Its all just too complicated with all the changing requirements.

Simon
I don't think your work will be wasted whatever you decide.
If I am not actually playing I can spend the day recording, photographing and making an article for the MILL etc.. if that helps.

We need a tall player top move around the room holding a JU52 and drop paper marked with ammo etc. Where it falls is where it falls?


martin :)

Quote from: martin goddard on August 17, 2020, 01:20:42 PM
We need a tall player top move around the room holding a JU52 and drop paper marked with ammo etc. Where it falls is where it falls?

Oh Martin - has all my hard work on the scenario planning and writing gone to waste...?  :( 


I'm hoping to hear from Sean, but Eisenhower is getting ready to opine on this weighty matter.

Simon

I'm here. Work since lifting of lockdown has become something akin to walking into Armageddon on a daily basis.

I'm voting for a postponement. I too would find it difficult to wear a mask for any length of time. I also depend on the kindness of Martin to provide any board and lodgings for my trips south and I think as things stand this is out of the question to impose on him.

I'm very much looking forward to future events, but who knows where we will be in 5 weeks time. I think this year is looking like a wipe out ☹

Simon,
you have set out the issues for and against very clearly, but as others have said, I am also erring on the side of "delay".
The idea of smaller playtest games is a good one to keep the momentum going, but we really need to have you in attendance.

Mike

Thank you all for your contributions.

So, delay it is. I've tried not to voice my own opinion too much here, but I am more than comfortable with this decision.

We now have Chris expressing an interest too, and may perhaps be able to drag in Colin as well, all of which is probably enough to get me to consider a fourth scenario (probably Prison Valley, so that John's Greeks get an outing).

I do like Chris's idea of small playtest sessions prior to the main social coming-together (which for me is really the best bit of any such event). I'll need to get the scenarios in a slightly more polished state, so that is on me. And meanwhile we can all continue painting troops and scenery.

I'll drop a note to Pete at Entoyment to let him know the situation.

Simon

Simon can we all have a summary of the requirements and commitments for the game.

Les - you can indeed. They're summarised in the Warning Orders I've been sending out, but I will be producing #4 - more complete, streamlined and with fewer errors (?) - in the coming weeks.

Please let me know if you'd like me to resend you #3.

Simon

I've written to Pete. All fine - they were very nice about it and wouldn't even countenance taking any money from me.

What a nice bunch of people they are at Entoyment :)

Simon

Thanks Simon for working hard at this.

Stewart

Thanks Stewart. It was my turn to put in some work, rather than get a free ride on others' efforts :)

Simon

Simon if you want to play test anything I can set tables up in Sue's salon on a Sunday?

Stewart

Thanks Stewart - very kind of you.

How are your paras progressing? I've had a bit of a summer hols hiatus, but got stuck in again last night.

Simon

Two platoons, two company Cmd and 3 guns + crews done, the other two platoon 1 w done.
Not started gliders.
Hit a bit of a wall.
Will we ever game again.

Stewart

Sounds good (apart from the wall)!

Why don't you share some pictures of what you've done here, pour encourager les autres?

Simon

I have some early war FSJ (not PP) if required.
John

Quote from: John Watson on August 17, 2020, 10:51:36 PM
I have some early war FSJ (not PP) if required.
John

John - you should be ashamed of yourself  :D

Time to upgrade to 2020 scultping quality? I'm sure that they'd prove great opposition to your Greeks.

Simon

I have spoken to Simon on the phone about this, I also now have a good well sized area for doing play testing of one table, (maybe 2 tables ? but it wouldn't be so well spaced)
This year is proving Challenging. Not wishing to wish our lives away. Roll on 2021.
Miles

Agreed Miles.
A stranger year I have not seen. :o


martin

Simon.

Can you next week send out the next Warn Order email summarising where we are with the project.

Particularly highlighting what you have promises for and progress.

And what you don't as yet have.

Les,

Unlikely, I'm afraid. I'm maxed out at work and working this weekend too.

I can resend WO #3 if you can't find it, but further work will have to wait awhile.

Sorry!

Simon

I ve yet to start on the terrain for table 3 which Simon knows about ? As I think it needs play testing first to see how the road and ravines need to be to each other so it works as a game.
The other thing I didn't know was he then asked me about the forces on this table ? I thought other people were concerned with that ?
So these do need sorting out ?
If anyone has any ideas about the ravines ? I feel that we are going to have a similar effect the "factory game" has with all those closed squares in place.
Modelling it isn't the problem, it where to put the scenery ? Into which squares and which ones to leave open etc ? Otherwise it could end up as a rather poor game ?
Miles

Miles, the last warning  order lists the forces required and the players you have said they will supply them.
If there are lots of ravines and closed terrain causes a problem, Simon May introduce a house rule that they are partial .
Enjoy building your table.

Stewart

Chaps,

I don't want to be unhelpful here, but pending the next update when I can get around to it, can you please (thanks Stewart!) just review what's already been sent out? This is based on what I believe folk told me that they already had / would be happy to paint up for the event. Clearly, lots has changed since we first discussed this last November, and I may have got some of it wrong in the first place, so I'm more than happy to make changes as needed.

Specifically: Miles: you're down for just 1 x 25pdr gun and 2 Vickers light tanks (pasge 23 of Warning Order #3) for Table 3, as Stewart had kindly volunteered to provide the Aussie infantry (aka 8th Army figures) for this scenario.

Les: I had you down for all 4 New Zealand battalions in the Maleme scenario (Table 1) - roughly equivalent in total to the infantry from a couple of standard PBI companies (page 21 of Warning Order #3). I thought that's what you'd meant when you said that you were happy to build the 5th NZ Brigade. But again, if I've got that wrong, or circumstances have changed, please just shout - I think there are guite a lot of 8th Army types (Early War Brits would do too, I think) kicking around within the group.

Simon

Simon from WO#3 I am doing:-
• Allied (5th New Zealand Brigade):
NZ 22 Battalion: 4 PBI platoons (representing HQ, A, C, D companies) [Average].
NZ 21 Battalion: HQ plus A and B Companies [Raw].
NZ 23 Battalion: HQ plus A and B Companies [Raw].
HQ plus 2 x Vickers MMG bases [Average].
Maori Battalion: HQ plus A Company [Veteran] .

But of this Brigade I am not doing,  1 x Matilda II [Raw], RAF ground crews [Raw].

This the force that I am intending to work on starting next week when my figures that were ordered in February arrive.

Any changes can you please advise as soon as possible Simon.

That looks right, Les.

We have Stewart down for the Matilda, and Miles for his RAF squadron's detachment.

Thanks,

Simon

I have the Matilda + bofors , 2 x CC , 4 x Fallschirmjager platoons got Table 1
And the Australians for Table 3
Also 16 Pistol Fallschirmjager, 9 canopy's, 12 canister groups and 8 single canisters to be used as markers as required

Stewart

I only ever said I would do the table. But then I ve been working over this "Lockdown" and doing my Western when I ve had spare time, as well as get my Back Garden sorted with my Assorted Cabins and shed.
Somewhere along the line I missed some of the "Orders". As far as I was concerned a lot of other people were supplying forces, I remember from that dinner last year "All" these voices going I ll do this force or that force ?
As I was looking at cutting back this year after doing that DDay Beach last year, it took a lot out of me, also knowing I was going to get my garden sorted.
But anyway....
I am looking for people to supply the forces and if they want to take over the Terrain ? But if not I will supply the terrain if and when we can get the terrain right ?
Miles

What do we need for the 33 Squadron forces ?
How many bases ?
Now that I am back on track for doing WW2.
Miles

Hi Miles
As per warning order 3
RAF detachment. 1x PC rifle + 5 rifle bases


Stewart

Ok I will get them done. That is the only forces I remember agreeing to do originally.

Miles

Simon,
For the Imvros sector, your WO #3 table confirms that Stewart, Milea and and I are providing the details of the troops and vehicles we are providing. I have a a couple of guns to source and then all the Germans are done. Stewart is down to provide the Aussies and Miles as mentioned above.
It's good to be planning future projects and I have been in the shed today painting scenery with Iraqi Sand!
Michael

Well done Mike - a worthy endeavour!

Simon

I am now Providing the Australian forces for the Ravine table now a copy that I have now read. As we are now under a delay order. I will make time to do an 8th/14th Army with Head swops etc, mixed force for the game, then hopefully I can expand It for a normal PBI game.
So also required are 2 Vickers Lt Tanks with HMG and a 25pdr (with Tractor I assume ?)
Also then the 6 bases for the RAF detachment.
Miles

Those could fight my Japanese Miles.


martin

Simon
I do have some painted german paras if there is ever a shortage.


martin

Thanks Martin. Are these the new sculpts?

Simon

I have a text file all about canister colours by Dave F.
I promised to run it by him before publishing.
I cannot get his e mail to work. He is on "btopenworld" which might be the problem?
I might just put it out anyway as Crete is approaching


martin

I sort of forgot that the "khaki Drill" uniform was for the Far East as well as the Middle East, at that part of the war.
Now Simon has directed me to the correct lists as well, I ve just got to get some money together, then I can send off an order to Piggy HQ.
So I am still trying to find the Correct the colour scheme for the Vickers tanks ?
Simon says they might still be green?
But that would be very unlike the British Army, not to paint it the "correct colour" first...
The 25pdr tractor, would that be a Morris or a CMP ? As it is an Australian Artillery unit ?
The other question to ask is when we roughly need to get this done by ?
Miles

British armour in Caunter is a subject all of its own! Official consensus is that it was two shades of a green - grey colour over sand, earlier pictures of blues and browns being discounted but still come up with occasional inconclusive references.
Tanks sent to Greece were either in Caunter or repainted (The Gods were neutral Robert Crisp).
Tanks sent to Crete probably came from stocks in ME so would be Caunter but there's evidence they too were resprayed OR that some may have come from UK and may or may not have had a respray.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/roy-farran-s-vickers-vib-in-crete-1941-t322604.html

Short answer, paint them how you want as no-one knows for sure but the above is the best guess.
Neil

I agree with Panzer21, having researched this for my Matilda's, it was the Caunter pattern. In a book showing Commonwealth tanks, and Greek Armour for the Balkans, it clearly shows the tanks on Crete (Maleme) displaying the colours as; Silver Grey, Slate and Portland Stone. They were from old stock, suffered major mechanical problems due to wear and tear. From what I have read the paint work would not have been straight from the workshop, but rather tatty.

Dave & Ben

Miles
I used the Morris tractor for my 25 pdrs, do not know if these are correct but I had the models so they are good enough for me!

Dave & Ben

Thanks for that. I was hoping to paint them in Caunter scheme. I was thinking about using the Plastic Soldier CMP quad and 25pdr set.
Next question:
British Uniforms.
Yes Middle Eastern/Far Eastern clothes. But any suggestions on What Colours to use ?please?
Miles

Most photos of the Commonwealth forces I have seen are actually in long trousers. Looks like Early War dress would suit. Not sure about colours. Probably faded / dusty?
That said, I have bought a bunch of 8th Army figures that I would use for Crete, once I have them painted. Probably mid-2022?
Simon

Most of the Commonwealth troops were evacuated from Greece, rather than shipped over from Egypt,  I believe. Even if the armour was mostly clapped-out North African stock..
Simon

I used khaki, dark sand and Iraqi sand on the uniforms - 8th army types
Long trousers british uniform shades by great escape games
Helmet - dark sand then pale sand
Socks - khaki with gentle touch grey green

Dave

There were a selection of units from various theatres, retreat from Greece, reinforcements from N Africa and units already garrisoned on Crete.

So I guess uniforms from the theatre they came from.


Stewart

I have used a mixture of traditional looking 8th army, 14th army, and Aussies in shorts and normal battle dress. So the troops are a mix and match per platoons.

Dave

Mine are definitely desert uniforms, except for the Greeks.
John

Here is a suggestion,
If things are near normal in May 2021 why not move the games to Crete?
We can go on mass , quick look Flying May 20 (same date as the Fallschirmjager) from Heathrow
7 nights is about £250 for two sharing (Sue May come to try the pool) whilst I play games.

Any one up for it?


Stewart

That is an inspired idea, Stewart!

Simon

I do have the occasional thought when not in the kitchen

Stewart

Explaining your toys to the customs people might be interesting!

I am happy to fly to Crete.

martin :)

We had tentative plans to go this summer - a rare occasion on which wargaming and family interests sort of came together.

I hadn't quite worked out how battlefield visits would get woven into beaches, restaurants and the odd spot of archaeology, but it might have involved a futile Minotaur hunt up in the hills :)

Simon

An interesting idea! Ben would be doing his A levels, but I am sure Hilary would enjoy the pool.

Been to Crete a couple of times, last time about four years ago, visited a couple of sites, not a lot to see only the odd bunker and terrain - but the occupation museum in Heraklion was really worth a visit. Showed how bad the German occupation was, they really took revenge on the Cretans.

If you walk around the old town some of the walls still show the bullet marks. 

Dave & Ben

This will show some of the scenery around the air strip.

Look at the start of part 2.

https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/maori-battalion-march-to-victory-1990

To get back on track:
I ve already Converted some of my British infantry with Trousers and top. As it has been mentioned, in photos of that period Trousers and Shorts are both there in abundance.
Yes I will get some 8th Army and 14th Army figures, but money is short this month. So I ll make a start  with what I have for now.
"Could do with selling some things at a Bring n Buy ? When we can have one ?" I wish LoL...
Miles

Let me know about the Crete trip Stewart.


martin :)

Early days Martin, have you read the email I sent out?

Stewart

Quote from: Leslie BT on August 28, 2020, 11:09:57 AM
This will show some of the scenery around the air strip.

Look at the start of part 2.

https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/maori-battalion-march-to-victory-1990

Thanks for sharing this, Les. There are some moving accounts of the battle in there, as well as some good - albeit mostly German - action footage (some appears to be from training, but others of the battle itself).

Simon

I have just emailed out Warning Order #4 to those people who have:

• expressed an interest in playing
• had others express an interest on their behalf (Colin!)
• shown interest as "corresponding parties" (currently in Canada and Australia).

If you were expecting to receive an email but have not yet done so, do please let me know.

If you would like to be included in this and future iterations - whether as a potential player on "the day" (whenever that is...) or not - also please let me know!

I welcome thoughts and comments - either here or via email.

Simon

Simon

Quite a nice little book.
Would it help if I put it somewhere on the PP website for RFCM members to download?


martin :)

That's very kind Martin, but I'm not sure it's yet in a fit state for general consumption? And some of the suggested rules tweaks might offend the author of PBI when he looks closely...?

It would be great to share it more widely once we know things work properly. I was also hoping to maybe get a magazine article out of it too, for a bit of PP publicity?

Simon

That sounds groovy Simon.
The new cliche phrase is "Let's put our arms around this".



martin :)

Do we not need to run it up the flagpole first?

Simon

Hi Simon, rather than wade through all the recent posts can you remind me if the Crete rehearsal at Entoyment is on or off at the end of the month.
John

John,
The September 26th test day is indefinitely postponed. Which is not to say it won't happen - we just don't know yet when.
Many of us are busy preparing stuff still, so it will no doubt be even bigger and better once we can all get together safely and comfortably.
Simon

John, myself, Colin and Mike and anyone else may do CWB game or games instead if you're interested ? On that same weekend At Entoyment. Just to keep our hand in ?
I know I need "gaming" Practise as the Western game I had proved 2/3 weeks ago. I ve been modelling and painting too long, not gaming enough.
Miles

A new question will be: which version of PBI will we be using for Crete 2021?

With PBI 20/20, I can see clearly now ( ;)) that there might be an opportunity to use the new rules, which could be sufficiently developed by the time we're allowed to get together again? If nothing else, we could get confused if we're playtesting the new rules but trying to play Crete with the old ones.

I think / hope that none of the scenarios' rule tweaks should be affected by a new version of PBI (or if so, could be readily re-tweaked).

Looking further forward, Eben Emael (which would need a bit of scenery, but very few additional figures to paint up), could form an interesting Enemy PBI scenario?

Simon

I would be pleased to see 20/20 used for Crete.
However, those playing or Chief Simon need to make the decision.

Let me try to "sell" it. :)

The main changes to PBI that effect Crete game would be.
1. Motivation .3D6, on,near,far.   SCW system. very quick.
2.Return shooting allowed on touching faces.
3. Morale fail = lose 2,3,4 bases not whole unit.
4. No diagonals for measure or move.
5. Body removal 2AP. Troops must be present.
6. CC adds 1AP and allows morale re-roll. PC and vet no longer adds 1AP.
7. Vets hit save as others, except they are better at close range.

That's it.


martin ???

Er - sold!  :)

Doesn't sound like too much effort on my part for Crete.

Simon

Blimey.

That was the quickest re-write in history. I approve all of the suggested changes. They sound sensible, straight forward and easy to implement. Also I think they will speed up play a tad which is never a bad thing.

Well done!

If you down grade vets will anybody bother to use them, unless you down grade their points cost as well.
John

John , I used vet Marines against Martins Japs and won .
One thing Martin left off, in an assault the better quality troops roll first and can have a re-roll which can be useful.

Stewart

PBI 20/20? Martin - one man, one vision.
Mike

Very clever indeed Mike.


martin :)

I think Queen wrote the song to go with the rules too?

Simon

Surely They would be Vets for Morale but not for fighting ? If that my understanding?
You only move by Square face ?
Like Sean and Simon yes I approve.
Would make the ravine game very interesting? Even 2 squares wide ?
Miles

You are correct Miles. No diagonal movement.


martin :)

In an attempt to bring this thread back on-topic, I'd like to solicit the help of the Forum members in providing some unit commanders' names for Les and Miles's forces, respectively.

Les is working on the Kiwi troops at Maleme. So far I have:
21 Battalion HQ: Lt Col J M Allen
22 Battalion HQ: Lt Col Leslie Wilton Andrews
22 Battalion: C Coy: Capt S H Johnson
22 Battalion: D Coy: Capt T C Campbell
23 Battalion: HQ: Lt Col D F Leckie: CC rifle

But am missing plausible commanders' names for:
21 Battalion: A, B Coys   
22 Battalion: A, Company
Company, 27th Machine Gun Battalion   
23 Battalion: A, B Coys
Coy, 28 (Maori) Battalion   

Miles is raising the following for the Retreat to Hora Safakion scenario:

2/7 Battalion: HQ, A, B, C companies
1st Australian Machine Gun Battalion detachment
2/3rd Field Regiment, Royal Australian Artillery
3rd King's Own Hussars

as well as the RAF detachment at Maleme

I have no commander's names for any of these.

Could anyone make any suggestions, please?

Thanks!

Simon

Simon seems popular


Stewart

The Shelby brothers will again feature in my command team.

Dave

Simon this should help with some commanders.

https://28maoribattalion.org.nz/node/6953

Les, that's a very good find, thanks.

I think you've just partially answered your own earlier question  ;)

Simon

I found the commander of the battalion, Lieutenant Colonel Theodore Gordon Walker (1939–1941).
Wow there is quite a history behind this unit.
Miles

Not sure if people have read this book ?
Anzac Fury: The Bloody Battle of Crete 1941 Peter Thompson.
A lot of the other books on this subject seem to be bank balance busting prices.
Miles

Vallejo Iraqi Sand. Has anyone got a bottle or two spare? As it seems to be a near impossible colour to buy ? As I use it as the main uniform colour for British Mediterranean troops.
Many thanks
Miles

arcade scenery have some on their web store.

Dave

Miles there is a lot on eBay , that's where I got mine

Stewart

I've done a little more research into the officers of 2/7th Battalion on Crete [source: "The Fiery Phoenix - the Story of the 2/7th Australian Infantry Battalion AIF", by Bolger, W. P. and Littlewood, J. G. (ISBN: 9780959335705)], as follows:

CO: Lt Col Theo G Walker
2 IC / HQ Company – Major H (Harry) D Marshall
A Company - Captain John Russell Savige
B Company – Lieutenant C W "Wadi" MacFarlane
C Company – Major W V Miller
D Company – Captain St Elmo D Nelson
E Company (assembled from former HQ personnel) – Captain G H (Harry) Halliday

Simon

That's very handy, thanks Simon.
Miles