Smaller company

[martin goddard]

I propose the following in order to help players with armies that cannot easily reach the 400 point total. It will  need testing.

We are at a late stage in PBI but these ideas are simple(?) and would not change the structure of PBI.
If structural changes are made then they ripple through the whole PBI set.

For  companies which do not have access to 3 or more PIAT, Bazooka, panzerfaustes, Panzer shrek (ie later/better AT usually indicates a company with many options). Whether they actually buy them or not does not matter. It is a simple mark of potential.

Maybe this should be allowed to any company?

1. In this case a player may choose to have 350 points instead of 400. A loss of 12.5%.
2. Each asset value adds 5. Still only 3 assets.
3. Reinforcement rolls change from 4 to 6 D6.

2,3 are compensations not a way to gain advantage.

Would that be worth 50 points to you?


martin

[Colonel Kilgore]

The reinforcement rolls are tempting...

As you say, Martin, worthy of testing!

Simon

[John Watson]

It might work. Re-inforcements should get on quicker. Assets potentially more readily available. Would the opponent have 350 points as well or still 400? i.e. does the opponent have to conform to the smaller force? As an opponent of such a force I would be concerned that the asset increase would be too much. We will have to see.
You mention not making structural changes, and I agree with this, which is why I thought that increasing the cost of foot bases by 1 point each would work well. It would not require any army lists to be rewritten or any rethink of strategy. The only adjustment needed would be to rewrite the page with the foot costs which would be a small change indeed. The other advantage is that it would be the same for everyone. It would make small forces usable with out the need for the jar in the box or non conformist rules (which would take some pages out of the rules) and it would make some of the more expensive companies choices of troop and support units more critical, thereby perhaps reducing the likelihood of the late war super company. i.e. at present I find most players (including me) maximise LMGs when using Germans. The small extra cost may make the player have to think about whether they want the fire power of the LMG or, perhaps, two extra riflemen.
John

[martin goddard]

Good chat.
It would be a bad idea to increase foot bases by 1 point.
Increasing an LMG from 10 to 11 (10%) is relatively very different to increasing an At rifle from 4 to 5 (25%).  This is always  a problem with small numbers.

The smaller number (350)  is chosen by a player for himself. He has no say in his opponent's choices.

If point costs increase the a balanced LW company would be less likely. Most PBI companies have about 40 bases. 40 points less would be bad news.

e.g  late war British platoon
(12 bases) PC SMG, 6 rifles, 3LMG, PIAT, light mortar = 92
3 platoons = 276.
Support platoon   PC rifle, 3 mortars, 4 rifles= 63
2  7/7 shermans = 70

This is the "golden example" of what a PBI company should look like.

Total 409
+43 points (1 per base) gives  452.


German 1944 late war
(11 bases) PC SMG, 6 rifles,1 SMG, 3 LMG MG42 = 94

When fielding Germans I often drop LMGs to 2 in order to save the expensive point cost of them.


We need to test the above ideas of course.


martin

[Smiley Miley 66]

So what would be the equivalent in 1940 France then please Martin ?
Miles

[martin goddard]

Not sure what you mean Miles.

Yes, my usual 400 point French Company would usually be 3 platoons, 1 support platoon and  some tanks.

For British 1940 I would probably use 4 platoons and a trio of veteran MG Vickers or cruiser  tanks.

martin

[John Watson]

Four platoons would be 324 points and 3 Vickers would be 51 points which would leave them short. The cruisers might be more, but with the light tanks you'd be short, which is a shame as the company you have listed, Martin, is a classic but is unusable.
John

[Smiley Miley 66]

Martin you put up British and German forces for 1943-44-45.
Now could you put a force list for 1940 for both armies please ?
Then we can see the difference ?
Miles

[martin goddard]

This is getting into a lot of distraction detail but I can give examples to help.

British BEF
Platoon. Average. P33
PC (pistol), 6 rifle, 3 LMG, 1 Lt mortar, 1 AT Rifle.=82 points
4 of these = 328
Veteran MMG Vickers tank x3 = 24 (Gun cost 3, armour 4)= 72  or 4 average for 68
An alternative would be 3 average cruiser tanks at 27 points each= 81
Another alternative might be 4 veteran 2pdrs= 76.
=48 bases
Total 400.

A foot platoon could be replaced by an MMG platoon for example.
PC pistol, 4MMG,2 rifles= 68. This gives an extra 14 points which would allow points to be put toward a further tank?


Germans 1940. Average P 58
PC Rifle, 6 rifles, 3 LMG,1 AT rifle, 1 lt mortar=99
3 platoons like this =297.
Support platoon MMG
PC rifle, 4 MMG,2 rifle 73
370 so far  43 foot bases

This leaves 30 points
2 average Pz II =42. Lose an LMG base ti balance this out.

I hope that helps.

martin

[Smiley Miley 66]

So, with these figures I could have 3 ave platoons,
1 MMg support platoon
3 Matilda tanks for 400 points or maybe just over?
So throw out a couple of bases to balance it out
So what is the problem? At least with the British I ve got no issues?
So I could do this with BEF or Desert.
With a British Company I could field a reasonable force and would have a go at a LW German company?
Or even replace the MMg platoon with A/cars ? Or AT guns ?
Miles

[Nigel_s]

I think Martin has demonstrated you can get to 400 points without too much difficulty.

I've never had a problem doing so with 1941 Russians and have had good close games vs EW Germans.

The six units allowed for raw give me enough. I tend to go with four infantry platoons, a support platoon and then a tank unit. Flex the tank quality at average or veteran and sprinkle satchel charged around the platoons to use up and odd points left over.