Preference for tanks

[martin goddard]

Would you rather have 2 veteran PzIV  or 3 Average PxIV of the same version?  Both options are about the same cost (120).

martin

[Colonel Kilgore]

3 Average 

Simon

[John Watson]

2 vets.
John

[martin goddard]

Why?

martin

[Colonel Kilgore]

Why?

martin

I "feel" (not done the maths) that the odds of getting hits from 3 Average guns are at least as good as from 2 Veteran ones.

And having 3 targets splits the incoming fire.

Plus 3 look scarier than 2

Simon

[Nigel_s]

Three. Put one on each objective and say "come on then".

In one recent game i had four raw valentines with a Russian force. They made a good contribution to the game. Keeping them in the same square, rolling APs meant i usually got 4 HE shots at an objective each turn. German veterans didn't like saving vs HE.

[Colonel Kilgore]

I get the feeling (I may have been doing it wrong previously) that HE against infantry is now very effective.

Simon

[martin goddard]

Two is less to paint, but three spreads the risk.
I am undecided.


martin

[Colonel Kilgore]

Three make Martin richer than just two. Easy decision, I think? 

Simon

[John Watson]

Two is easier to get on the table than three or four. Also I find the +1 on shooting helps.
John

[Sean Clark]

Quantity over quality for me. The loss of one is less upsetting when there you still have two tanks left.

[Smiley Miley 66]

Simon their rule about HE from tank guns against infantry hasn't changed ? It was the same in V3 and just carried over. Plus anyway I ve always thought it was a good compromise, basically a 10 plus to hit infantry then anything but a 1 or 2 to save is bad luck on the defending party, rather than good shooting by the attacking party.
But makes the tank gun at least partially effective against infantry. Even the infantry AT can fire and hit one base in a square or at least attempt too ?
But while we are discussing this, in the rules you can't have an HE effect of 5 against the square ? Unless you have loads of targets in the square ? As you can only ever hit an infantry base once per shoot regardless of the HE number ?
But saying that as an appendix type of thing, HE effect number as a value against bunkers, built up defences and buildings in a Square ? Could this be explored? As we are doing beach assaults etc over the next few weeks for the likes of a Churchill AVRE firing, a German Brumbar or a Russian 203mm or an American 155mm Long Tom firing at buildings ? Also when we do Berlin type games as the Russians and the Americans used these weapons as direct fire in this type of environment!
Can we please look at and give it some thought and apply RFCM rulings so we can all "sing from the same song book" when using these Monsters please ? As these would be used more in specific type games, but at we would all be using the same mechanics to get a result !
Big Mikes approach in February (Gold beach) was ok but needs a bit more thought and refinement to it? It did seem to penalised the Petard Mortar a bit without using huge numbers to compensate? ( as this was a weapon designed to do the job ? It seemed slightly off !)
Then that way they won't be too complicated or so way out that they become unusable?
Miles

[Smiley Miley 66]

Anyway I think 2 Veteran tanks would be more effective, quality over quantity?
Miles

[Colonel Kilgore]

Simon the rule about HE from tank guns against infantry hasn't changed ? It was the same in V3 and just carried over. Plus anyway I've always thought it was a good compromise, basically a 10 plus to hit infantry then anything but a 1 or 2 to save is bad luck on the defending party, rather than good shooting by the attacking party.
But makes the tank gun at least partially effective against infantry. Even the infantry AT can fire and hit one base in a square or at least attempt too ?
But while we are discussing this, in the rules you can't have an HE effect of 5 against the square ? Unless you have loads of targets in the square ? As you can only ever hit an infantry base once per shoot regardless of the HE number ?
But saying that as an appendix type of thing, HE effect number as a value against bunkers, built up defences and buildings in a Square ? Could this be explored? As we are doing beach assaults etc over the next few weeks for the likes of a Churchill AVRE firing, a German Brumbar or a Russian 203mm or an American 155mm Long Tom firing at buildings ? Also when we do Berlin type games as the Russians and the Americans used these weapons as direct fire in this type of environment!
Can we please look at and give it some thought and apply RFCM rulings so we can all "sing from the same song book" when using these Monsters please ? As these would be used more in specific type games, but at we would all be using the same mechanics to get a result !
Big Mikes approach in February (Gold beach) was ok but needs a bit more thought and refinement to it? It did seem to penalised the Petard Mortar a bit without using huge numbers to compensate? ( as this was a weapon designed to do the job ? It seemed slightly off !)
Then that way they won't be too complicated or so way out that they become unusable?
Miles

Thanks for clarifying the absence of HE rule change, Miles, I guess I just never got it when playing PBI 3!

Good point about HE against defences. I think Mike's house rules worked pretty well for Gold Beach but agree that something official would be very useful.

Simon

[Colonel Kilgore]

Anyway I think 2 Veteran tanks would be more effective, quality over quantity?
Miles

I find this debate very interesting, and we have a pretty even split of opinions.

Which I guess means you have the points about right, Martin!

Simon