AK47 for a complete Duffer

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

Having seen various forces on display and intrigued by the pre-game tweaks to forces mentioned in the rules I am tentatively considering investing. I think I have the modelling chops to pull it off but unlike other gaming 'periods' I am far less secure in my mind's eye of the likely results.

Have you chaps any advice for;
1) A complete novice to C20 gaming
2) Who feels not altogether woke but somewhat uneasy gaming more recent conflicts (even earlier Colonial conflicts unless the indigenous forces stand a decent chance of winning).
3) Aware of not excessively adding to the already burdensome lead mountain.

I'd like to start small ideally around a sensible but interesting retasking/customising of some old 60's civilian vehicles with a small initial outlay for conversion, as either ad-hoc transport for rebels or perhaps a religious cult. I do however like the pirates + looters combo for a rag tag militia... I also (sadly) liked the Tuareg v Mali from Cussler's 'Sahara' though the military conflicts in Mali are perhaps far too 'modern'.

I'm also not sure whether to stick with Africa or possibly expand my search into other geographical regions, possibly South America or perhaps even S E Asia... sadly the plight of the Montagnards post-Vietnam War rules them out despite PP having some lovely figures... 

I'm also not sure whether to opt for the older rules or 'reloaded'... sensing something of a schism out there... and not being a regular gamer I don't have a preferred 'style' of play that might suit one or t'other.

Any ideas, gratefully received
Neil

[Sean Clark]

Ha! 

I had to come to the defence of Reloaded yesterday on the Facebook group. Some familiar naysayers have turned up to stick the knife in. But between Julian and myself, I think we have it covered.

OK, my tuppence to the discussion.

AK47, whilst ostensibly set in Africa, can in fact be transported to any region or country you like. South/Central America is a good one with drug cartels vying with security forces plus super power backed clientelle. It could even be transported to Sodor if you so wished. It's foundation is that you are creating 'Imagi-Nations'.

The nice thing is that there is no denegration of the worth or abilities of the soldiers, regardless of background, race or religion. Soldiers are either raw, trained or veteran - that's it. Your army can have machete weilding locals unhappy at an oppressive overlord, or trained special forces designed to go in hard and get out quickly. As always in wargaming though, the dice will fail you more often than not. It is the better general that copes with the adversity who will usually win.

Just about any car, truck, APC or tank can be utilised. Tanks either have old, standard or new guns. Really simple. You don't need to know how many forks or handles a vehicle has in order to play the game. In Reloaded you have 15 armies to choose from. If you search this forum, Julian has put together some excellent articles discussing the merits or otherwise of them, plus thoughts on army building and tactics.

Classic was/is a great game too, but Reloaded is in my opinion a considerably better game due to it's structure and mechanics. It was a revolution rather than evolution of the original. The naysayers were a vocal minority, mostly involved in the old Brixworth event ran back in the mid noughties. The ironic thing is that the event used essemtially it's own version of the rules, with altered points costs, amendments to things like helicopters and even table size. If you purchased a copy of the classic rules back then and turned up at the event, your army would most likely be wrong due to the changes in points cost for your troops, and you'd be left scratching your head at how the mechanics for certain aspects worked.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the 2 or 3 times I attended. But the dedicated few who went to every one, and were prolific posters on the old RFCM Yahoo Group were quite hostile to the direction Martin went with the rules. There felt like there was a sense of entitlement from them for him to write the rules they wanted. That's fine - but the dozen or so players at those events were a very small portion of the AK player base as a whole.

Ultimately, no one was ever going to rip the old rules away from anyone and demand they couldn't be played. We all have a freedom of choice. But my opinion is that that small core of players didn't really give Reloaded much of a chance beyond a flip through the book and 1 or 2 games at most.

I'm sorry for rambling, but I am quite passionate about this subject! The reason I ran the AK Reloaded games day last year was to promote the rules and show just how good they are. We had 12 players and I think most enjoyed their day out in Daventry. Quite often with a set of rules, they need a public champion who will promote them across social media and draw in interested parties. It's something the Fat Lardies do. I remain convinced that their rules are intrinsically no better than any other rules available. But they are good at creating a hype around them and they recruit players hand over fist because of it.

So, to finish a long answer to a short question - my recommendation is to play Reloaded in your own 'Imagi-Nation'. Base it on a period of interest if you like, but by making up cities and countries for your lead men to fight over, you can sanitise any bits that you are in anyway uncomfortable with.

What ever you choose to do, enjoy your gaming, play nice and keep rolling 6's. 

[martin goddard]

Thnaks Sean.
Better put your steel helmet on.

martin

[Smiley Miley 66]

I agree with Sean, I ve seen this debate on Facebook and will say yourself and Julian have defended it very well.
Like any rules when they are re written there is always something in the old version that worked better for. Something or another. That's life.
Miles

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

Thanks for indulging this old fogey with all your helpful responses.
Thanks, Sean, for the detailed background, that together with various other discussions and eye candy on the interweb such as Derek's Wee Toys and TMP has galvanised me...
It is certainly getting the old creative juices going... I quite like Julian's Mad-Max idea as well but I think I'm not enough of a petrolhead to pull off that look successfully

Having mentioned Clive Cussler's 'Sahara' set in Mali I am leaning more towards an 'Imagi-Nation' along similar lines - i.e a former French colony on the desert fringes... if only to use that lovely Citroen model 8/154 (shame there's not an open top version - I can just see a warlord in a shiny version much like the 1938 avions Voisin c28 cabriolet in the 2005 Sahara film). At least there is also a destroyed marker in case I get a lucky hit on the Warlord!
I'm not sure of the longevity of Tuareg cavalry in AK47 unless they were like the Poles and RPG equipped... or even of the spare Reno I kinda fancy using as a sentry box (like one was reputedly done in Afghanistan in the 1980s)... I also have a couple of unused GAZ 4 wheeled trucks 8/145 going spare (too late for my RCW). Certainly a combination of Tuareg and urban mobs/militias Vs Warlord forces really appeals...

[Smoking gun]

Hi Neil, The post war French army had an interesting mix of kit and vehicles. They used US supplied helmets, M8 Greyhound armoured cars, M24 Chaffees, the Hotchkis copy of the jeep also vehicles from the defeated axis including Panther tanks although I can't find any evidence of them being used outside of european France.

Good luck and best wishes,
Martin Buck

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

If I were to take Mali as a visual cue for my imaginary African state on the desert fringes...
Despite the French not withdrawing until 1960, and the Malian army relying on conscripts and French army veterans, there seems to have been little French kit left behind (at least not officially it would appear). Instead our friend Mr. Wiki tells us that they relied heavily on Russian materiel and expertise. They had T-34s and T-55s and Russian APCs. Of course that might mean the opposition may have had access to French equipment from over the border in neighbouring Algeria...

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

Given the geography of 'MaliFaux' or 'Malitania' or whatever I care to call my Imaginary state on the desert fringe, transport is going to be vital to cover the large distances involved. The Warlord state will need mobility to put it's stamp of authority on the region while the rebel tribal Northern marches and to lesser extent the various scattered urban populations will also need transportation. I envisage more guerrilla-style raiding, ambush and lightning reprisals than set-to battles...
I understand it is not necessarily a given under the rules on the actual day of 'battle', but can you cost forces as fully mobile from the outset even if that cost places limitations on troop numbers?

And has anyone used horse cavalry successfully without ending up as mincemeat?

Neil   

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

I have been doing some research into my 'Sahara' themed AK47 forces...
As suspected the Tuaregs depicted have long been fighting for (and continue to do so to this day) the right to control an independent state in the traditional Berber heartlands of the region. They were anticipating some sort of settlement with the French colonial withdrawal in the late 1950s but the region was carved up between the newly emergent states... I now have a historical point around which to pin my AK forces... The First Tuareg Rebellion or 'Alfallaga' (1962-64). Between PP, QRF and Old Glory I have now sourced sufficient troops for the different factions.
How comfortable are you Modern warfare chaps depicting the flags and emblems of movements of 'current' conflicts?... They would certainly add context, narrative and colour... and since I always side with the underdog I would happily game with representations of either faction. Am I over thinking this and being too Woke?

[Hman]

Hi Neil,

For what it is worth, it is your army, so do as you wish...


Howard

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

Thanks, Howard,
I guess I have an issue with wargaming conflicts within my own lifetime and this 'period' is close to that conceptual cut-off point.
I suppose every wargames force is to a certain extent someone's fantasy take on their chosen period/conflict.

My T-55 will have to be my Warlord's personal ride, since the bulk of the MBTs in the Malian army were actually T34/85s. They also relied on a lot of old wheeled Soviet APCs, 4 wheel drives and Technicals for desert work. I'm sourcing suitable Cold War Soviet vehicles from the early 60s with a smattering of French ones...
Ultimately I will have all 5 branches of the Malian military represented in the 5 AK units - Republican guard, Regular Army, Militia and both Urban and Rural versions of police/paramilitaries.
The fun bit will be adding support and heavy weapons to my Tuareg insurgency. I've sourced Tuareg Cavalry and infantry with small arms from Blue Moon/Old Glory UK, and some HMG crews from their French Foreign Legion range. The Hotchkiss MGs will go to my MexRev forces to be replaced with more modern PP support weapons...

[Sean Clark]

In my own 'Imagi-Nation' there are no child soldiers, drugs, modern slavery or religious fundamentalism. Not woke, but at the same time this is wargaming for fun and not political one upmanship or chest beating.

It saves any upset, finger wagging or shaking of heads. Modern African conflict can be grim fair. I don't want that. I want silly names, things that explode and improbable odds.

However, each person must game as they so wish, and I would never criticise anyone's decisions for their own gaming. If I don't agree, I can choose to look qway or not participate.

Enjoy your gaming, saty safe and keep rolling 6's.

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

Thanks Sean,
I think we've all encountered the darker side of historical conflicts in our reading. The Mexican Revolution, the Russian Civil War and the Chinese Warlord era were my last expeditions into the C20 and they shared many of the aspects you've mentioned.
This will be an interesting modelling departure for me, and a further opportunity to morph/re-task some of my father's Railway modelling bits 'n bobs expanding my modelling ceiling from the 1920s up to the 1960s-70s for the first time..

Neil

[Sean Clark]

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

[Hman]

Neil,

As you are thinking of using Mali as a 'template' for your 'Imagi-Nation', you might find Mali's SIPRI's Trade Register entry of interest. https://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php

Howard