Bowmen charged

[martin goddard]

In CK bow units tend to get only 1 shot before the armies close for combat.
I propose introducing a rule for bow units having an effect when charged.

Bow units are poor in fighting . Therefore increase negative modifiers to max 3 (-1 per unit)for bow units.
Before the fight is calculated though, foot close or auxiliary bow units in the target (not assaulter)  zone shoot with 5,6 = success.
Opponent chooses re-roll.
Each success creates  -1 from assaulter's fight D6. No actual casualties but a disruptive effect. Max 3.
Not available to cavalry because they would be busy charging back and not standing their ground.

e.g. 3 close order bow units being assaulted. 4+4+4= 12 D6 (with re-roll).  E= 4 scores of 5,6  =-3 applied to assaulters.

e.g. 2 auxiliary bow units being assaulted.3+3=6 D6 (with re-roll)  E=2 scores of 5,6  =-2 applied.

e.g. 1 close order bow unit assaulted. 4=4D6.  E=1.3 hits. -1 applied.

Does that seem fair?
This should overcome the bow units having only 1 shot before being hit.

martin

[Moggy]

It's tricky as bow armed foot units are treated as shielded when charged (if also equiped with these). As it stands, when assaulted they suffer from -1 dice per unit for being bow equiped and a further -1 on saves (unless shielded). There is one army (by the lists) that is mainly bow armed close order (Nubians). How is this going to effect this force?

If we postulate the existing effects and the proposed effects  with 3 close order charging 3 close order (bow) ignoring external influences you get:

                                           Existing                                        Proposed
Assaulter                               9D                (-3 from shooting)       6D
Defender                               7D                                                  6D

So a fight that was pretty even but slanted towards the attackers benefit becomes an even match. Except for the need for the attacker to EXCEED the hits of the defender. Trying to get 3 hits from 6 dice is rough (assuming the defender gets a average roll). This becomes worse if the close order has taken any previous damage then he may only be getting 2 dice for not being at strength.

Overall I think I would rather go with the shooting at a charger only hitting on a 6 with the casualties counting towards the fight but perhaps each bow unit that has done this only getting 1 dice to fight back with. That way the owner of the bow units get a choice of to shoot or get ready to fight.

I think I would have to play through this before anything further though. Maybe this Saterday playing my Barby's as Nubians may be a way forward with this.

Derek

However when it comes to casualties

[John Watson]

Without doing the math (as the Yanks say) I rend to favour the way Derek is going. This also reminds me about mixed units. Those units that are a significant mix of close order spear and bow. These include Byzantine infantry and cavalry, Assyrian infantry and probably some others that I haven't thought of yet. How are these going to be treated?
John

[martin goddard]

Thanks for the thoughts.

Obviously needs some testing etc.
Saturday Southampton is not the best time to try these ideas out I think.

Saturday 5th March
For Saturday's game  at Southampton club we had better use units that are exactly correct because we are hosting 2 new players.

Play testing at PPHQ and at home with experienced play testers we can and do use all sorts of "stand ins".

Club games need to be as clear as we can, so as not to overburden new players with unnecessary detail etc.


martin

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

Han Chinese also had mixed missile and spear/halberd units. They also had mixed crossbow and bow units which should count as a standard missile unit. The Chinese crossbow was not the uberpowered weapon of the later middle ages...

[martin goddard]

I will divert the "mixed unit"  matter to a new topic or Confucius will reign

martin

[Moggy]

No probs Martin. I will bring both the Barbarians and the Mongol horde along. We should have quite a range of armies to field that way.


Which version we using?


Derek

[martin goddard]

Thanks Derek
I will send out a new set of CK later today



martin