Pyrrhus

[martin goddard]

The point of this topic is to consider   great generals who were cut short.   
This is opinion of course.
Alexander the great also comes into this category, but he did rise to the top of the fame tree before death.

This is the king who beat the romans, but suffered so many casualties that his victory was considered too costly to him. Hence the term "pyrrhic victory".
He can be  lumped in with  the Successors /diadochi  (Selucus, Lysimachus, Antigonas,Ptolemy etc of Alexander the great) for fighting style.


His career was cut short though.
He was unlucky to be killed by a roof tile thrown by a woman in Argos ( the discount store?).


Other generals who might qualify as being "cut short". Althogh they can not have been too cit short if they had already reached the rank of General?

Pat Cleburne of the Confederacy.
Wolfe of the British army in Canada.
Horatio Nelson.
Roberts in the desert.


Nominations?


martin

[John Watson]

Stonewall Jackson perhaps.
Or Harold Godwinson. He was waiting for an invasion from the south and another from the north. When news of Harald Hardrada's landing was received he marched his army north so quickly that he surprised the Vikings at Stamford Bridge. Not happy to rest on his laurels he marched the huscarls back at speed to the south gathering an new army around him. The Normans had hoped to have time to terrorise the population of the south before they faced the Saxons but Harold did not give them time. Perhaps he should have taken longer to raise and rest his army in London before facing the Normans. We shall never know. His feat of arms, marching his army north and then south at such speed was not matched until modern times.
John

[martin goddard]

I agree John , Harold is certainly one of the great ones. In addition he actually fought in the ranks and was not back as HQ with the maps like many  later generals.
I expect there are a whole bunch of brilliant Eastern generals about whom we know too little.

martin

[Colonel Kilgore]

I may have to move this thread to a more general (non-Ancients) area, but if we are straying outside of the C&Q era, how about Lieutenant-General Sir John Moore?

Simon

[martin goddard]

No problem if it is moved Simon.
Tell us about Moore.

martin

[Big Mike]

I have sneakily googled this subject. One of the most famous of the names mentioned is Joan of Arc who defeated the English at Orleans in 1429. She did quite well for a teenager until the French had her burned at the stake.
This is of course a very short synopsis of a very complex campaign but suitable for a Hollywood film.
Mike

[Colonel Kilgore]

No problem if it is moved Simon.
Tell us about Moore.

martin

Having done lots of good stuff elsewhere (in the American War of Independence, in Ireland and Holland, establishing the system of "drill and manoeuvre" and establishing a 340,000-stong militia to resist a French invasion of England), Sir John Moore was put in charge of British forces in Spain and Portugal (Arthur Wellesley and other senior generals having been sent home for a ticking off). He won the battle of Corunna but was fatally wounded by a cannon ball.

More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Moore_(British_Army_officer)

Simon

Simon

[martin goddard]

That is interesting Simon.
A bad end.

Was it the English who burned Joan?


martin

[Leman (Andy)]

With the collusion of the French. Very convoluted reasons as to why the rallying point of the French armies was then handed over to the English. Poor kid was probably afflicted with mental health issues, hearing voices and what have you. Medieval religion was really weird.

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

Off the beaten track for many of you I might guess but my vote goes to Geoffrey de Mandeville (d.1144), former Constable of the Tower of London and First Earl of Essex. Growing up on the Essex/Cambs border, he is something of a local historical hero of mine.
He successfully played both sides against one another during the Anarchy and ran a successful guerilla campaign in the Fens based around Ely and Ramsey with support from regional families sympathetic to the Empress. His 'myrmidons of Satan' (Mercs and hangers-on) tied up the region so much that it proved necessary for Stephen to put in a personal appearance and box him in with a series of forts tying up substantial forces in a prolonged siege. His depredations against church property also earned him an excommunication.
Like Richard Coeur de Lion he falls into the 'walking into a passing crossbow bolt in the combat zone while surveying the battle' momentary lapse of common sense category.
Apart from his bad day without a helmet, he otherwise displayed a degree of political acumen and military leadership which has been compared with Machiavelli... Who knows what he might have achieved had he lived longer.

[Big Mike]

That is interesting Simon.
A bad end.

Was it the English who burned Joan?


martin

I was relating the Hollywood film version........(no excuse).
Mike