52

[martin goddard]

We are now well ahead of Adele.
Stewart defending.  martin attacking.
No cavalry and no big artillery.

Lots of scenery in the central zone(2 woods, 1 buildings,1 marsh). Only 1 hill on the table.

Defender started the game by moving up on the flanks.
The defender right flank just pushed on through with no resistance except trouble  getting out of scenery.
The defender left flank moved up to occupy a hill.

The attacker struck the defender flank hill 3 times. Lost all 3 times. Resulting in dead generals.
The attacker fight through the woods in the table centre, but was held up by scenery and morale failure.

Suddenly the defender centre gave way, but it was too late for an attacker victory.

7 turn game.
The defender slaughtered the attacker. Mainly because the defender controlled the entirety of both flanks and the attacker had not reached the defender base edge.

The absence of cavalry meant that both armies had a lot of infantry.
14 foot units per side
14x4x3=168 + supernumeraries = 200 painted figures. Accessible or not?

Very engaging game. Plenty of "option of action".

[Stewart 46A]

I think defender setting up 2nd and having first turn allows defender to occupy key features and exploit any weaknesses in attackers battleline with a strong ward to knock attacker back.

[Mike6t3]

Just a thought from reading these reports. Did woods feature on WOTR battlefields much ? I can only think of Tewkesbury where a flanking force made use of them. I always thought that medieval armies would keep to fairly open ground and not use woods as some sort of cover. Reading the playtest reports  woods seem rather a feature.
Maybe I am wrong or have mis understood the reports (I'm happy to be corrected). What do others think ?

[martin goddard]

Good question
Woods were very common in WOTR battles.
Tewkesbury of course. That include the Wenlock mid-battle line approach (Wenlock moved his ward along the Yorkist front in wooded cover) as well as the 200 spears hidden  in a more distant (western) wood.
Blore heath with woods all along the rear of the defending Lancastrians. Helped them sneak away too.
Wakefield. woods hid most of the Lancastrians who then popped out and slaughtered the Yorkists.
Some woods at Ferybridge
Castle hill woods at Towton.
Wods at Hexham, Hedgelely moor and  Edgecote.

In wargaming terms things listed at the time as "hedges" were indeed rows of trees intertwined with hedge and ditch. Nowadays we would probably call those woods too. At Barnet the troops either side of such a "hedge" could not get at each other without spending a long time hacking through.

The battle 51 was very unusual to have two woods in the middle though i agree.

[Mike6t3]

Thanks for the info  . I didn' t realise about the hedges actually being woodland.

[martin goddard]

Well, that is my thoughts (for what they are worth). Some of the Osprey books have good photos and art  which give pretty good indications.

[martin goddard]

Thoughts about initial deployment in discussion with `Stewart.

How about?

Defender deploys
Attacker deploys 2nd (advantage)
Defender does losses.
Defender has turn 1(advantage)

[Stewart 46A]

Send fair, try it Wednesday?

[martin goddard]

Willco

[John Watson]

I would also express concern about the "woods" issue.
Yes woods featured in WOR battles, but mainly on the periphery of battle fields. So helpful for ambushes (Tewkesbury, Towton, Wakefield). They were also good to slow down or block re-inforcements or to anchor a flank.
However I would argue that terrain features that hamper cavalry, but did not block line of sight, were more common on the main battle area. So streams, marshy or boggy ground, broken ground or ride and furrow were much more common.
So my view would be to make woods and buildings normally flank or rear pieces and make streams, hedges, marsh, broken ground etc usable anywhere on the field.

[martin goddard]

Good points John

See what I can do.

[Leslie BT]

Are you going to send out BB52 to us all?
Don't seem to have a copy to use for tomorrow mornings game.

Perhaps try Chain of Command instead!!

[martin goddard]

53 gone out. Needs testing though.