BB28

[martin goddard]

Updated with more detail on generals, cavalry and definitions.

[Colonel Kilgore]

Mr Pig - you have been prolific - another day, another version

[Leman (Andy)]

Whooee..........I need to get my breath back!

[martin goddard]

Thanks
Hop it does not cause data overload.
Not many mechanisms survive first contact with Les or Stewart.

[Leslie BT]

We try our best to help Martin out!

[Colonel Kilgore]

So, before BB29 comes out, here are a few initial comments / queries on BB28:

• It might be useful to include "linear" in the dictionary on page 4 (since the term is used in the table at the bottom of page 11) to cover ditches, hedges and streams
• Pages 5 and 15 use different terms -  "front line" and "battle line" - it might be easier to call them the same thing throughout?
  
• Page 12: if a "Within the scenery" marker is used, do the units in a Ward also need to move towards the back?
• Page 17: "Players cannot create overstacking": does this (presumably) mean that they cannot deliberately cause it to happen (e.g. by moving Wards, pulling or pushing units)?
• Can a "just hanging around" spare General in a Zone ever be targeted or otherwise be at risk – perhaps only if he is unable to fall back if his Ward loses a fight?
• Will weather feature in a future version e.g. driving snow reduces visibilty; marshes become impassable in winter; wind reduces effectiveness of arrows?

And a few minor typos:

Top of page 10: "quite", instead of "quire"
Page 11: "affect", not "effect" in "A gentle hill will never effect movement"
Page 11: "its", not "it's" in "leave the same zone in it's previous turn"
Page 14: (top): " Generals' ", not " General's "
Page 14: under Movement, should "When the ward moves with it. " be something like: "When the Ward to which he is attached moves, the General moves with it"?
Page 15: replace "The ward in which te general has dies" by "The Ward in which the general has died"
Page 16: "its", not "it's" in "The Ward can only change it's units"
Page 17: replace "Rolls of 4, 5, 6 moves" with "Rolls of 4, 5, 6 move"
Page 21: "its", not "it's" in "The off table units allowed to deploy in it's new zone"

[Colonel Kilgore]

And another book to list in the rules (and read avidly, if you get the chance!): "The Military Campaigns of the Wars of the Roses", by Philip A Haigh, who - as well as being a wargamer - has made a lifelong study of the battlefields. Alan Sutton Publishing Ltd, 1995

It's now seemingly out of print, but I found it to be an excellent tome for its time.

[Nick]

And another book to list in the rules (and read avidly, if you get the chance!): "The Military Campaigns of the Wars of the Roses", by Philip A Haigh, who - as well as being a wargamer - has made a lifelong study of the battlefields. Alan Sutton Publishing Ltd, 1995

It's now seemingly out of print, but I found it to be an excellent tome for its time.

Agreed, that really is a good book. It goes through all the main battles.

[Colonel Kilgore]

The "Defender losses" on page 23 seem largely similar to the Square Bashing depletion method, but with some twists that I'm unclear on: "Thus a defender who achieved 11 in the piggy chase will inflict 6 hits on each of his own zones". I think that this should now be 7 hits (blue "7" in the 8-20 Defender's Piggy Chase score in the table on the following page)? But what happens to each hit? Is it an automatic removal of a base, or of half a base? Is there a saving throw (since if not, it's hard to reconcile the statement "The result of the above will usually mean the defender has a couple of units off table and will have lost about 6 half bases"...)?

[Leman (Andy)]

Yes indeed, Philip Haigh's book  also sit proudly in my WOR library.

[martin goddard]

Thanks Simon

i will action that.

[Colonel Kilgore]

I've just stumbled across a useful-looking list of livery colours:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/113c5_US60TyAHXKXmg7YCR6ezNR4sUcRqkSK31mC_5I/edit#gid=862549219

produced by Martin of Vexillia, linked to from his blog: https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2018/09/war-of-roses-livery-colours-database.html


He also stocks the Freezywater ranges of WoR flags: the 15mm ones are here:

http://www.vexillia.com/freezywater/shop15_flags.html

[Colonel Kilgore]

With apologies to Martin for my third post today on BB28 (but I have now read the whole thing through, so hopefully no more until BB29 ), here are some more...

• Page 25: "Swap two defender zones. Whole content with whole content (attacker chooses)": Does "whole contents" mean just the troops, or also the scenery?
• Generals i I don't think it's stated explicitly, but presumably they are unable to move diagonally?
• Page 30: Ward recovery: "contact" presumably means face contact?
• Page 39: the Cavalry bonus is presumably in addition to the cavalry itself also counting as a unit?
• Page 41: the example for "both players score the same" uses different scores (8 and 7), so they're not actually the same...
• Page 41: "If assaulter is winner, then target either takes yet another 4 more hits or falls back" presumably the defender chooses whether to take the hits or fall back?
• Page 41: Assaulting a zone more than once: is this only from different faces by different Wards, or is there any other way in which this could occur?
• Page 42: Winning the fight: "These markers are all removed at the end of a fight. They will be replaced with a new "Winning the Fight" markers if appropriate" - so, any previously-won WtF (maybe not an acronym to use in the printed rules ) markers are removed, but the winner may gain some more as a result of the outcome of this same fight?
• Low on arrows: presumably the "dark cloud" unit can be pushed out of a zone (e.g. into an empty one) and thus remove the curse from its original Ward?
• Page 48: It wasn't immediately obvious to me that the emphasis in gun deployment wording is on scenery they cannot deploy into: presumably they can deploy in scenery-free zones too?
• Page 51: Addition if killed general was royalty: is this just for historical scenarios, since no other mention is made of royalty (yet!)?

By the way, I really like the "recycling cavalry" mechanism – very neat! And also the "rotating guns" - nice and simple.


Minor typos:

• Page 37: replace "of" by "if" in "When hits are inflicted bases may ignore that hit of they successfully make a saving roll"
• Page 46: replace "schwere punkt" with "Schwerpunkt"

[Leslie BT]

Simon Weather is a question for Martin.

I have amended all the rest. Some I had found and some a new revelation.

I am sure there will be more with BB29, 30 .......

Yes the mistakes are all my fault.

Martin just writes it the way he wants the document.

[Leman (Andy)]

I've just stumbled across a useful-looking list of livery colours:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/113c5_US60TyAHXKXmg7YCR6ezNR4sUcRqkSK31mC_5I/edit#gid=862549219

produced by Martin of Vexillia, linked to from his blog: https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2018/09/war-of-roses-livery-colours-database.html


He also stocks the Freezywater ranges of WoR flags: the 15mm ones are here:

If you go to Vexillia home page, scroll to the bottom , there are free flags to download, some of which are WOR. However they are square personal flags, not the long tailed standards. However, there are dozens of them.

http://www.vexillia.com/freezywater/shop15_flags.html