Cunaxa discussion.

[martin goddard]

Cunaxa

I believe we  are enjoying this project a lot.

I will get an updated CK army book/Persian list out later  too.
Players can point up any army they loke from teh persian list with the folloing limitations.
Royals. Must have 1 chariot unit. No Greeks.No shock cavalry
Rebels. Must have 3-4 hoplites. No chariots.

Both armies no artillery.
That will give all players some choices in how they want the army to be built.



martin

[Panzer21]

Duncan Head "The Achaemenid Persian Army" Montvert Publications gives (from Xenophon):

Cyrus
10,400 hoplites
2,500 Greek and Thracian peltasts
200 Cretan archers

 "100,000" asiatics inc
 600 bodyguard cavalry (EHC)
1,000 Paphlagonian cavalry (LC)
Cavalry on left wing
20 scythed chariots

Artaxerxes
Tissaphernes with 500+ cavalry
Gerrhopphoroi light armed spear or possibly Sparabara
Egyptian hoplites
Cavalry and archers
Plutarch gives 6,000 cavalry around the king under Artagerses

Richard Nelson "Armies of the Greek and Persian Wars" WRG gives:

Cyrus ( from right wing next to Euphrates)

1,000 Paphlagonian horse
2,000 Greek peltasts
10,000 Greek Mecenaries
Cyrus + 600 household guard

Then behind and approaching in a column
Ariaeus with cavalry then three bodies of infantry estimated at 20-30,000

Baggage train

Artaxerxes (left to right from Euphrates)

Tissaphrnes 500 cavalry with white cuirasses
Troops with Gerra (whicker shield) est 10,000
Egyptians with large wooden shields
6,000 cavalry in front of the king
Behind cav on either side of king 2x 5,000 archers
Two bodies of 10,000 infantry
Body of cavalry
Scythed chariots across whole front of army


Strengths (estimated)
Cyrus
40,000 inf ( inc 10,000 hoplites and 2,000 peltasts)
3,000 cavalry

Artaxerxes
50,000 infantry
7,5000 cavalry
150 scythed chariots

There is a copy of the Montvert book on eBay for £40 - bargain as others are listed at twice that.

Neil

[Smiley Miley 66]

WSS 117 has a good article on this period.
Miles

[Colonel Kilgore]

Cunaxa is featured in Ancient Warfare III.6:

https://share.google/5aL9E2JcvBHuhdzpo

and in WSS 117:

https://share.google/xALahBEAIEH99K2ji

Does anyone have these?

Simon

[Flaminpig0]

Wil the Persian range extend back to  Platea ?

Oh, and does any else remember Charlee Grant's  Cunaxa  campaign in  Battle magazine?

[martin goddard]

Based on my limited research.

I think the range would do fine for earlier battles.
The "Median  loose clothing look" on campaign seems to have been long standing.

The major difference  is that earlier armies had the shield bearer (sparbara) and deep archer formations.
The later armies did not.

Therefore, there will not be any "big shield" men in this range (I think).
There will be scythed chariot in the range.

I am doing the cavalry first as they look nice and are distinct by having no shields.

martin

[Flaminpig0]

The major difference  is that earlier armies had the shield bearer (sparbara) and deep archer formations.
The later armies did not.

Therefore, there will not be any "big shield" men in this range (I think).

martin

Although if you would only need one  pack of "big shield " men for people to form Sparabara  units for earlier armies.  You will be producing the  archers that will make up the back ranks in any case

Ian

[martin goddard]

You are right Ian.
If the figures come along/sell well I can add such a pack easily.

My big challenge next is designing a  scythed chariot that will cast easily.


martin

[Colonel Kilgore]

Cunaxa is featured in Ancient Warfare III.6:

https://share.google/5aL9E2JcvBHuhdzpo

and in WSS 117:

https://share.google/xALahBEAIEH99K2ji

Does anyone have these?

Simon

I bought both magazines today (no physical copies left for sale, so as digital files).

Ancient Wargames Vol III, issue 6 notably contains:
- a 5-page article on Persian standards of the 5th and 4th centuries BC, including two nice detailed pictures of standard bearers on foot
- a 7-page article on the Battle of Cunaxa, including a half-page map of the battle ; an almost 2-page spread of a battle scene

WSS no.117 includes:
- a nice picture on the front cover of various Persian wargames figures
- a 4-page article on Achaemenid Persian wargames armies / tactics (with most usefully a full-page picture of various Persian troops attacking "the Ten Thousand"
- a 5-page article on wargaming Darius vs. he Scythians (with a number of pictures of nicely-painted figures for inspiration)
- a 6-page article on the Ionian revolt: mostly about wargaming five scenarios but with again a bunch of nice wargame figure photos of both Persians and Greeks
- some of the same wargames figures pop up again in a 4-page article on Cunaxa itself. Provides a (slightly different) map of the battle and an order of battle.
- there's a 1-page piece giving a little more background (and a different viewpoint) on the figures pictured on the magazine cover, inspired by the battle of Marathon

I still have to absorb this material, but I found it useful for both graphical inspiration and providing a little more information on the battle itself.

Simon

[Sean Clark]

Thanks for putting in the hard yards on this Simon. Useful commentary.

[Smiley Miley 66]

I have the WSS as I get my copies every 2 months.
Miles

[martin goddard]

Thank you Simon
Good recce.
I have ordered the AW and will print it off the is afternoon.
I wil produce the scenario this week too.


martin

[Colonel Kilgore]

Well done, Martin, thanks.

You might also wish to specify an Order of Battle for both sides?

This would make the games an interesting comparison of two tables playing exactly the same scenario, wlile also making it easier to work out what's missing as painting deadlines approach? It would be such a shame to collectively have too many of one unit type and not enough of another!

Simon

[martin goddard]

OK Simon I will do that. I hope players do not feel too constricted?

martin

[Sean Clark]

Even if I don't make it, I'd like to see an order of battle which I could then maybe take to the club at some point. As I'm going to paint couple of units, I might as well extend them out to full armies in time.