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[Panzer21]

"Demonstration games at shows have often left me feeling slightly uncomfortable; often feels as if the players have turned up for their own benefit, which is fine but it does mean that waverers can be put off."

I got involved in an online "discussion" many years ago about "demonstration" games. The topic was started by US gamers who could not get their head around the concept. In the US you put on a game for people to play. They didn't grasp what they called "look but don't touch" games.
It went around the houses. It was generally agreed that a lot of the games used beautifully painted figures on specially made terrain - in some cases works of art.
What we could not establish was what they were "demonstrating".

I suggested that it was the skill of the person putting the game on and perhaps incautiously suggested it was in effect an ego trip - to feel good because people said nice things about your game....

I got a lot of flak. One chap told me he didn't spend thousands of pounds and considerable time putting on games at shows "just for his ego".
So I asked the simple question "why did he do it then?"

All these many years later, I'm still waiting for an answer.......☺

Neil

[JohnWyatt]

Judging by the photos, you had to wear a jacket and tie if you wanted to put on a demonstration game in the old days. Could that be the missing ingredient? 

[Smiley Miley 66]

I know for me Airfix was the way forward in the 1970s and then Matchbox in 80s. Getting into WW2 then I spread into other historical periods from there. Started goi g to model as well as wargame show and the rest is History. But these routes don't seem to be there anymore?
Talking of History is it because they stopped teaching about it in order ?Eygpt-Greeks-Romans-Vikings ? Etc Etc. But now seemingly do events and periods in History instead?Dunkirk, Hastings Somme WOR ? I can understand it become a bit bitty and drawn out as well as confusing bit there ? So no interest in what happened inbetween ?
Miles

[Moggy]

comes back to what I said earlier. Teaching is towards doing an exam and not about learning about the period and the issues of the day.

Derek

[martin goddard]

I was at school during the 60s and 70s.
There were history lessons but they did not influence my interest in miniature gaming.
Woodrow Wilson's 14 points?
History is probably better taught at school now than ever before. The resources are much better. Schools also have more history based field trips etc. too.   I never had an historical field trip when I was at school ( a rough school).

 I do accept there is too much history to learn/teach all of it, even by the keenest.

I am leaning more towards Miles' point.

I saw Airfix figures and thought "that looks interesting". There was no competition from electronic based entertainments. Maybe Airfix was a main influence?
Then I got Charles Grant's BATTLE book (plus Military Modelling articles)  and became very keen indeed.


Good discussion folks.
I will find a tweed jacket and tie to raise the quality of our public image.

martin

[Moggy]

I felt the same until my 3rd year in secondary school when I came under a different history teacher. She brought it alive for me.  A good teacher can inspire that enthusiasm. I still love history now due to here nuturing in the subject. Im reasonably sure that was where my interest in gaming came from.  Now if only I could remember her name

Derek

[SimonC]

More personal experience...

I've moved over to predominantly playing GW games now. I think accessibility is a major factor. I can go to several clubs (many within walking distance) and get a game with a large range of opponents. The age range is late teens to sixties. The clubs/stores typically have a retail component, I can just pick up off the shelf and pay. If I need to learn something about these games there are hundreds of 'professional' quality content creators online. Historical games are not going to compete with this. I think its more likely that historical gamers ar more likely to move that way rather than the other way round.

There is probably an element - IMHO - where there is an arrogance that historical games are of a higher level of value. Again in my experience, these new larger communities are way more friendly (maybe because they're trying to earn a quid). In my recent experience old gamers can be more insular, opinionated, unwilling to try anything new, and generally unwelcoming to new folk. Obviously, there will be exceptions to the rules. I'm sure we seen grumpy old men at clubs/shows.

My thought would be to start playing these 'large' brand games, meet the people and then try to introduce them to new historical games. BUt the question would be what would make this better than what they currently do?

[Ben Waterhouse]

So, despite that inauspicious start, what brought you back to the hobby, Ben?

Simon

I had a school pal, that I "persuaded" to start playing after getting Charles Grants "The Wargame" out of the local library. Airfix ACW of course. Then I found a stamp and coin shop in Wakefield that sold Hinchliffe... 50 years later...

[John Watson]

My experience of history at school was wonderful.
As a 10 year old I learned the dates of the kings and queens of England and have retained that knowledge to this day (utterly useless except in pub quizzes).
As a 14 year old I studied "the Expansion of Europe" from about 1450 to 1600. Vasco de Gama, Amerigo Vesputchi, John and Sebastian Cabot, Magellan, Francis Drake, Walter Raleigh etc. Brilliant. I loved it. This was World history.
I also studied, as English history, "the Three Georges" as taught by an ex WW2 pow. Can you imagine the Jacobite Rebellion 1745, The Seven Years' War, The American War of Independence, the French Indian Wars and the Napoleonic Wars.
I couldn't get enough of it.
But my love of wargaming came from a fellow student who had written his own WW2 war-game rules.
John

[Smiley Miley 66]

See like Derek I had a great teacher in the 3rd year, the previous 2 he was more seemingly interested in having a fag in his backroom rather than properly teaching us ?
But then the last 2 years they went on to teach us about History of Churches which I enjoyed as Martin rightly said field trips,  to some of the local Churches. Must admit Dorset does have some nice and good examples of Churches across the ages. Then History of Medicine which I didnt find as good and interesting being more about facts rather than something to get your teeth into ?
So I went more into Art. But that's another story.
If my History lessons had been more what John experienced I actually might have gone on and taken History further in my Academic years ? Also would know more about some of the CK and Viking periods we now cover in gaming ?
But looking at this it does seem to be a generation thing ?
Those of us the essentially grew up in the Airfix period do hold different values to those in the Games Workshop period ? They in turn have different opinions to us "oldies" Of course now the Video games period with there experiences. As we can't ignore this, now the graphics are so good ? They bring alive what we as "old gamers" could only imagine back in the old days ?
Call of Duty, world of Tanks (air and sea) even Assassin Creed with its graphics going bad to old worlds ? Also Halo with its Sci-fi looks. All great games and fantastic graphics.
So how do we bring this all together is the question ? Without having our pre judgments and mis conceptions getting in the way ?
Miles

[Forst22]

Went to school in the 60's and 70's.

My biology teacher was a wargamer, we had a club at school, have been playing and running a club ever since!

Even had a wargamer in my local primary school, where my children were, again generated a lot of interest especially my son . But unfortunately more games workshop.

Agree with the demo game comments, we do demo games at local shows but try to use simple games and average models so as not to overaw the new comers. We often spend most of the shows just chatting to people about wargaming, and giving them a feel about the games we play.

We offer a free first visit to the club, and always rope them in to actually play as most games are multi player. We also try and impress on them that they can come and play without having to rush and buy stuff as many of our veteran players can easily host games from their own collections.

Seems to work , slowly!

[martin goddard]

Maybe there can be a label "Airfix introduced (AI)" to encompass the bulk of historical miniature gamers?
Here's to AI.

martin

[Sean Clark]

It'll never catch on  Martin!

My history teacher in the mid 80's was a chap called Ian Wilson. He ruled the class with an iron rod and was a fierce individual. But my god, he had those of us with an interest eating out of the palm of his hand.

He would stride up and down the classroom quoting Wilson's (Woodrow) 14 points. We learned about triples entente, entente cordials, blank cheques, splendid isolation, fascism, Bismarcks Ideology, Hitlers rise and the suffragettes. I was in awe.

Europe between 1870 and 1939 became my speciality. I remember in my O level exam we had to write 10 essays, but the potential questions were on around 20 different subjects so we had to have all 20 memorised. But thanks to Mr Wilson (Ian) I got through it. Quite why I didn't go on to study history further, I can't begin to guess.

[JohnWyatt]

The only thing I remember from history lessons at school is being told off for reading Edgar Rice Burroughs under the desk. I think we were doing Henry VIII at the time, so not much difference from the exploits of John Carter.

[Flaminpig0]

The only thing I remember from history lessons at school is being told off for reading Edgar Rice Burroughs under the desk. I think we were doing Henry VIII at the time, so not much difference from the exploits of John Carter.

Better to haave John Carter as a childhood influnence than Henry VIII