A day of making templates

[Sean Clark]

Yes I know what you mean about painting on a sand/pai t mix like Basetex. I'd love to know what Simon uses at S and A but I suspect its a trade secret!

[Colonel Kilgore]

I used to make up my own version of Basetex using PVA, sand and paint, but I found that it didn't give a sufficiently textured finish. Also it ruined brushes. So i switched to applying PVA first, then dipping the wet base in a sand bath. Once the base was thoroughly dry I knocked and brushed off any residue and then painted and dry brushed the base. Much kinder on the brushes and a nicer appearance.
John

It sounds as though we've arrived at a similar place, John?

Simon

[martin goddard]

This is progressing well.

Matters to be sorted (gosh).

1. Templates. Sean might get a  huge batch from WARBASES. Rectangles with curved corners?
2. Paint. This might be a bigger decision. Do we need to be all doing the same thing/colour. Probably , although we could have two production lines.
Paint can be gotten in any colour we like from a paint merchant (B&Q et al). Household paints can be  satin or matt. They are also pretty strong.
3. Hills. Painted with flocked parts?  Using foam for the basic shape.
4. Flock- cork grinds (traditional flock) or nylon (using a  static grass machine).
5. Adding sand to the paint by either PVA after or mixing when applying. Brushes are cheap.
6. Drying times. Hence a nice hot day in July. A Saturday? It would be best if everyone can take their artwork home at the days end. Or mums can pick them up at the end of the day?

Can we bash this about  a bit to get some sort of rough consensus. It will need to end with a compromise for practical purposes.

Some thoughts.
1. Templates can all be for AK or SCW (scrubby/light in between Europe green and desert yellow) as not many have any templates so far for that project? Do we all have plenty of green and desert? 
2. Participants can make  0-24 templates. ie just a  social or major enterprise.
3. Consistent scenery might get mixed up thus  all pieces need labelling.
4. Agreeing on a colour or colours.
5. Do we want to make lakes/ponds too.
6. Pieces will need to be tough enough to put up with stacking and using. This might mitigate against tufts?
7. Getting a day that suits all is tricky.
8. Folk can make templates for friends too.
9. If successful(?) the exercise can be repeated as a  group effort or individually using the recipe used.
10. Do players want to have scenery same as others or   should they bring their own tufts, wreckage  etc for individuality?



July 20th  or 27th?
I can set up  plenty of tables and chairs in the garden and supply refreshments.


martin

[John Watson]

All sounds good Martin, except "gotten"! The word is "obtained". I refuse to be Americanised, or is it Americanated?
I am away for most of July so the 27th is the only date I might be able to make.
John

[Sean Clark]

I'm away in Dorset 19th-28th July with family and friends from Germany. However I have been given special dispensation to come to Weymouth for a day. I doubt it will be a weekend though so probably not much help. I'm fairly sure my mother in law and German friends want to spend the day making templates with us 

1. Templates. Sean might get a  huge batch from WARBASES. Rectangles with curved corners?
I'm happy to do this. Once we have a date and firm numbers I can order them. If necessary I could get them sent to Martin direct
2. Paint. This might be a bigger decision. Do we need to be all doing the same thing/colour. Probably , although we could have two production lines.
Paint can be obtained in any colour we like from a paint merchant (B&Q et al). Household paints can be  satin or matt. They are also pretty strong.
I like the idea of a consistent colour. Writing our names on the back of the templates is easy enough
3. Hills. Painted with flocked parts?  Using foam for the basic shape.
This could be the messy part. If using white polystyrene, it gets everywhere when you cut and sand it. I do have a polystyrene cutter which works well, but I think S and A still sand theirs to get that lovely rounded look.
4. Flock- cork grinds (traditional flock) or nylon (using a  static grass machine).
Static grass gets my vote. You dont need a machine as it sticks well to PVA or varnish. I dont think S and A use a machine, but it does look nice if you do use one as it makes the grass stand up.
5. Adding sand to the paint by either PVA after or mixing when applying. Brushes are cheap.
cheap play school style brushes are a good idea
6. Drying times. Hence a nice hot day in July. A Saturday? It would be best if everyone can take their artwork home at the days end. Or mums can pick them up at the end of the day?

Can we bash this about  a bit to get some sort of rough consensus. It will need to end with a compromise for practical purposes.

Some thoughts.
1. Templates can all be for AK or SCW (scrubby/light in between Europe green and desert yellow) as not many have any templates so far for that project? Do we all have plenty of green and desert? 
A scrubby/dried earth wold look lovely and double for SCW and MexRev too
2. Participants can make  0-24 templates. ie just a  social or major enterprise.
If we go by the thought of having 2 of every template availble for each player it might look something 4 each of:
buildings
woods
rough hill
gentle hill
dead ground
rough ground
+ maybe lakes

which comes to 24, plus maybe a lake. Some of these might serve dual purpose. Rough ground could be a wood template with some long grass/sisal bits plonked onto it.

So I think 20-24 templates would give a player a full set. However, if they just want a one player set, then 12 should do it.

We also will likely need partials, but can put our thinking caps on for this.
3. Consistent scenery might get mixed up thus  all pieces need labelling.
easy enough to write our names on the bottom
4. Agreeing on a colour or colours.
5. Do we want to make lakes/ponds too.
6. Pieces will need to be tough enough to put up with stacking and using. This might mitigate against tufts?
7. Getting a day that suits all is tricky.
8. Folk can make templates for friends too.
9. If successful(?) the exercise can be repeated as a  group effort or individually using the recipe used.
10. Do players want to have scenery same as others or   should they bring their own tufts, wreckage  etc for individuality?

Of course this is all for mass production. If people want to do their own fancy bits of dead ground or to add tufts and embellishents thats great too!



July 20th  or 27th?
I can set up  plenty of tables and chairs in the garden and supply refreshments.


martin

So I think 20-24 templates per participant for a full set or 12 for a half set. A unified colour means we can buy a large pot of paint. PVA glue, static grass, sand and some white polystyrene sheets should do it.

[martin goddard]

No worries John.
Apologies for irking you, it was not intended.

Gotten may be  used by Americans a lot, but is undoubtedly an English origin word, just diminishing in use.
 
You will have heard of  "ill gotten gains" way back in your childhood?
It is pre United states by a long way.

We should use a wide vocabulary, whether it is common parlance or not.
We should encourage that.

Wargamers vocabulary is often wide due to the multiple texts and precisions they need to use.


martin

[martin goddard]

Thanks for the considered reply Sean. It gives us something to discuss/argue about.

The hill foam I am suggesting is not polystyrene, but the insulation blue/pink stuff. I have a lot of it we can use.
It cuts easily with a handsaw (normal steel long bade). It can then be trimmed with bread knife and finally sanded with a rough grade (80) sander.

Partials is a good thought.

If people like John's 27th July that sounds good.
A nice hot day would be perfect for drying and rapid production (vital).

Marshes, ponds can be done with some paint and gloss varnish. Water effects seem to need too much depth.

Maybe the templates need an initial coat of varnsh to seal them?
That can be done a week before, if numbers are known?


martin

[Sean Clark]

I wouldn't worry about the language issue.  In the Potteries dialect people use the word street for straight and straight for street. Cost means 'can you'. Cosna  means'I cant'. Bo means ball. Bost is 'broken'. Mar is 'my'.

A famous saying in Stoke is...

'Cos kick a bo a gen a wo an yed  it back an bost it?'

Language changes all the time. It's a wonderful thing 

[Smiley Miley 66]

The mix is paint and sand, mixed to suit.
Miles

[martin goddard]

How about a mid tan colour with green patches?
What tan colour did les and you use Miles?
Are you out there Les?
 
Either the tan or green could be expanded to the whole template if painters want.
This gives either tan, green or patched templates.

Is sand textured enough?   Sieved builders (rough/sharp)  sand?

martin

[Sean Clark]

In my experience the better sieved the better. You want just enough to allow a nice dry brushing. If there are too many lumps in it it becomes difficult to put things like trees or other bits on top of the temate as they wobble a bit.

[Sean Clark]

A tan colour is a good idea with static grass patches.

I have a few blanks from S and A so will experiment.

[Smoking gun]

Hi,
A few points from someone who won't be attending (time and cost restraints).

Extruded insulation type foam, I have found it can be shaped with a "Surform" type tool.

Aldi currently have bags of "play sand" in their central aisle, I like play sand because it is clean, and a consistent size. Other toy shops sell it.

Please can you post the paint and flock / tuft colours in advance as I may have my own outlier session.

Thank you and best wishes,
Martin from Grimsby

[martin goddard]

Thanks Martin

I expect that if it works, we will produce a MILL article and list the recipes used.  For better or worse.

Tufts. I was thinking that we see what is available from WARPAINTER  and buy a whole bunch with folk paying and choosing their own packs. This allows some players to use loads of tufts as they have chosen and paid  for them.


martin

[Smiley Miley 66]

Whitby Brown, it was a Crown colour. But it seems to have wiped off their computer. But I did get it re sampled at my local Crown place.
So I can get some more made if needed to ?
Miles