PBI fighting day 11th November 2023

[martin goddard]

I shall bring British 8th army and Italian.
I will use the British.
I will point up an Italian army that anyone can use. i will give an AT gun option and a tank option.


martin

[John Watson]

In that case I better bring 8th Army, Italians and DAK. I will point up each as well, so we can mix and match. I will aim for the 2nd half of 1942 so that takes in El Alemain and the battles that preceded it.
John

[Colonel Kilgore]

Gosh - you chaps do have a fine selection of forces to choose from!

Simon

[Moggy]

Damm, think I need to start on more common place armies now John.

Already started making more Fins, Seems I dont really have enough unless I make them veterans.  Already thinking of making them a large enough force to do a non-conformist force. Ideal for surrounding those invading Russians!

Derek

[martin goddard]

Derek
Would you like to borrow an Italian army???


martin

[Moggy]

I will use whatever is available thanks.

With my dice it possibly wouldn't matter anyway after last time lol.

Derek

[martin goddard]

Derek
Would you prefer  an  Italian tank or towed AT gun option??
I will then put a list up here for your perusal.


martin

[martin goddard]

John
Will two tables be easy to "get" at the Wessex club on the 11th??

martin

[John Watson]

Based on the last couple of meetings it shouldn't be a problem. Numbers have been down and it is also Warfare so there might be a few at Farnborough.
Derek I don't think the Finns really qualify for non conformist as their support hardware is quite adequate to make them conformist. Depending who they are fighting they either have their own, Russian or German tanks and artillery.
John

[Moggy]

My reading of v72 of the rules (p109)

"Non-conformist companies
If a player wishes to use a company and class it as non-conformist the following
restrictions are applied."

I take this to mean you could use any nationality as a non-conformist unit. Yes, there is a list of restrictions to certain Armies but as they are not specifically listed then only the general rules would apply.  If this is not the case then that statement need to be re-written to say this or a general set of restrictions inserted.

failing this I can always call them Norwegians in snow gear though!

Derek

[Moggy]

Historically I feel the Fins are an ideal nation for fielding non-conformist units as that is what made up the majority of their army. During the Winter War over 50% of their fielded units were made up of troops who could only doubtfully be called reservists let alone regular troops.

Also, if you consider the following:

The Fins had little in the way of war industry apart from a factory making molitov cocktails.
The Fins only gained the use of slightly better equipment by capturing it from the Russians (who also had little in the way of "expensive items such as good quality tanks and towed guns) in the Winter War and the continuation war. This inevitably left the tanks damaged.
The Fins had no ability to recover heavy equipment from the battlefield and even when this was possible they had little in the way of heavy industry to actually do real repairs which left most armour "patched" and equiped with a mish-mash of equipment within it.

To me the Early Fins seem to meet all the criteria.

Derek

[John Watson]

I beg to differ and would refer you to the two excellent Osprey volumes on the Winter War and the Continuation War.
Also I don't think it was Martin's intention that you could use any company as a non conformist company. I think you can only use them when you cannot comply with the normal rules.
Personally I don't like the idea at all. I think there should be a points limit that all forces must comply with from their available forces. Full stop.
John

[Sean Clark]

I'm not sure I grasp the concept of a non conformist company.

Am I right in thinking that it's intended to cover real life equivalents that dont for some reason within the standard design of your company? I'm sure I've seen Home Guard mentioned.

[Colonel Kilgore]

I'd understood that non-conformist companies were those that couldn't legally get to 400 points (i.e. because they were Raw and couldn't historically call on tanks / guns to bump up their overall company points sufficiently). With resistance (French, Greek...) groups and Home Guard units being typical examples.

Do I have that broadly right?

Simon

[martin goddard]

Yes you do Simon.

Thanks