Rules for 2023

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

Ancient galley rules - at a scale where you can introduce such gems as Rhodian firepots, The corvus, towers, dolphins (my personal favourite) and torsion artillery they can be a bit samey - much like post dreadnought naval games. They were also part and parcel of land warfare so only a larger scale strategy game akin to Risk could properly cater for them.
Renaissance galley warfare - as above but with armour, spinal mounted cannon, deck mounted swivels, plus crossbows replacing the torsion artillery and missile element. More like Warhammer on water x World of Warships
I have never seen the appeal of Italian renaissance warfare barring the heraldry. To me it is just like WoTR but with more cannon, more factions and stranger accents! I did however enjoy the snippets from 'The Agony and the Ecstasy'. Rex Harrison as a Pope in armour...
As for space (to put all the models) That really is the Final Frontier!

Neil

[Leman (Andy)]

A reminder of past offerings. Here are some pictures of mostly Italian Renaissance Peter Pig figures from the 90s. You can practically here them chanting, "We want grids!" Nice mounted PP commander discussing plans with a dismounted cavalry commander (I think a 15mm Citadel offering from back in the day).

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

Having said all that about the Italian Renaissance those 90's PP figs do look good!

Neil

[Sean Clark]

Yes they do look nice.

I remember it was a small range and I never owned any of them. However, the more I think about it  the more I'm 8ntrigued as to what Martin might come up with for both rules and figures.

[martin goddard]

I think it was an 11 pack range.
I also did a range in 25mm for use with the old George Gush renaissance rules.
Very colourful.

martin

[John Watson]

Is it time for a renaissance of the Renaissance? At least in 15mm. I would be up for it.
John

[Sean Clark]

A renaissance of the Renaissance would lead to me needing to find a good book that tells me the general situation.

I anticipate lots of pikes, lanscknehts, heavily armoured cavalry with pistols and probably very floppy hats.

[Leman (Andy)]

There is what I consider the Great Italian Wars best overall summary, holding a similar place in my affection to Michael Howard's The Franco-Prussian War. It is F.L.Taylor's The Art of War in Italy 1494-1529. It tells you everything you need to know to get started in this period. Although written in the 1920s it has continued to be republished every so often as it is such good, concise coverage of this period. It concludes with an in-depth look at the Battle of Ravenna 1512.

There have been a lot more books published on this period in recent years. The Osprey book on the Landsknechts and Swiss is good. Helion's latest series on the Italian Wars has been a valuable contribution, and is particularly good for those looking for painting and army building inspiration. Volume 1, dealing primarily with the start of the Wars and the battle of Fornovo in the mid 1490s, suffers from a rather stilted English translation (excellent illustrations however), but this improves with the succeeding volumes. There are now four volumes, with volume 4 dealing with the end of the wars in the mid-C16th. A major omission is the activites of Gonsalvo de Cordova, the Great Captain, at the end of the C15th and beginning of the C16th. However this is to be addressed in a forthcoming volume 5. One of the things I like about this series is that the books, including the illustrations, are by Italians. At last the ongoing myth that on January 1st 1500 every man started wearing Shakespeare's infamous puffling pants is dispelled. It would appear that the slashing and flounce began with the shirts and jackets, especially by the Landsknechts. Many Spaniards were still wearing tight hose beyond the 1510s as shown in volume 2. Spaniards were wearing stuffed hose by Pavia in 1525, although the vast majority of French and Italians were still in tight hose. As for the Landsknechts, 1510 to 1515 was the fairly narrow window where it was fashionable to have one leg uncovered to a greater of lesser degree.
Pistols are really a post-Pavia phenomenon and were a common arm for cavalry at the end of the Wars in the 1540s. I tend to think of pistol armed light and heavier cavalry in the French Wars of Religion, The Eighty Years War, The Thirty Years War and the ECW.

[Colonel Kilgore]

That's good intel, Andy, thanks.

I'm assuming that Martin has already ordered the books below, and is already kneading the green stuff?

Simon

[Leman (Andy)]

I think in this instance patience is probably a virtue, but I would be up for playtesting such a set of rules.

[Sean Clark]

Any man that rates Michael Howards book is a man to be trusted in my eyes!

Thanks for that Andy. I'm coming in blind so all of the above is great fully recieved. Even if Martin decided against rules and figures, there is nothing wrong with expanding one's horizons!

[Paul in NZ]

We used Michael Howards book for my O Level History as we studied the Franco Prussian War in detail.  I can never find anyone to wargame the period unfortunately.

On the rules, it would be great to align WAM to C&K or Bloody Barons.
AK47 with no grid for me.

[Leman (Andy)]

Gosh, weren't you lucky. The nearest I got to Military History in O level was a fleeting glimpse of the Crimean War and the Cardwell Army Reforms. Were it not for Airfix Magazine, and my dad picking up The Battle of Koniggratz for me in a W H Smith sale in 1969, I would never have known the 1866 war had ever taken place. I was more fortunate with A level where we did actually study The Great Italian Wars and the shenanagins of the Borgias, backed up by the TV series.

[John Watson]

I lucked out on O level History.
I studied the expansion of Europe in the 16th Century. So Vasco De Game, Amerigo Vespucci, John and Sebastian Cabot, Christopher Columbus, Francis Drake, Walter Raleigh etc.
Best of all was the British history which was the Three Georges as taught by an ex 14th army veteran. Covered the Seven Years War, the American War of Independence and the British part in the Napoleonic Wars (Peninsular War and Waterloo etc).
BRILLIANT.
John

[Moggy]

My History O level consisted of politics in the UK. Ages on Corn Laws and all sort of reforms. Was so interesting I got a C lol.   No idea how though. Maybe everyone else thought it equally boring so sympathy grades were awarded.

Derek