Meditative contemplation.

[Matías]

Well, of course CoC feels like a game, it's a game. I only say that for me there is more of a strategy feel than in Bolt Action.

Jump off points are a clever mechanic that allows you to capture some ground before the game starts, it's like a mini game. It's neither historical nor gamey but it tries to represent, with a limited amount of resources, the advanced positions of an army. If it feels like a star gate to you, feel free to skip the patrol phase.

There was something in there about Disposable Heroes and fire and movement before. I don't know if CoC was the first to implement it or there where games that did it before, but that doesn't detract from the fact that it's there and I love the fact that you can use it.

In my opinion, if you have a look at any of the campaign books from BA and any of the Pint Sized Campaigns for CoC, then it's clear the better representation of the historical facts within the confines of a game is represented better in the PSC scenarios from CoC than in the BA scenarios.

Again, I agree that they are all games, and I respect the fact that you don't like CoC, but I prefer it over other rules, and that's just my preference, with all the gamey and ripped things it might have.

In the end we all have limited free time and we should spend it playing the rules we enjoy, in my case it's Chain of Command.

[Colonel Kilgore]

Thanks for this summary of a key CoC mechanism, Ivan.

I have read elsewhere that the CoC ground scale if using 15mm is much closer to the figure scale than in most other games, just due to the small scale of the CoC actions.

Have you found this? I would be interested in your thoughts.

Simon

[Sean Clark]

From reports I've read it does create an empty battlefield look. The game is played on 6x4 with singly based figures and probably only 40 or so each side.

I honestly prefer PBI though for its speed of play and unpredictability. I also prefer the 3 letter acronym, PBI, over COC

[Leslie BT]

Sean is that an extra breakfast coming!!

[Smiley Miley 66]

I played Bolt Action in 20mm, the first edition. I was surprised that you had to move, fire . Eat and sleep,as a platoon rather than Rush and Fire teams that even PBI has, section by section. I don't know if 2nd edition addresses this at all ? I found it rather strange as it is mainly designed around 28mm figures, which by definition should be more Section by section if not even each sectional fire team ?
But the CofC sounds interesting, could anything be brought into the new Same side PBI ?
Miles

[Leslie BT]

Been playing C o C a bit recently has most of the stuff that bolt action lacks.
Have you seen the rules or played a game Miles?

[mellis1644]

Just thought I would add to the Chain of Command vs. Bolt Action 'debate' from my view. Note, neither game looks right 28mm. The ground scale to figures just makes them 'look wrong' to me. Now the models/table may look wonderful in 28mm but that's a different discussion.

However, I have to say that Chain of Command is likely to give a more tactical game (note I did not say realistic). In the games that we have played there has been more of that - more choices and interesting options of play. This means that games can be quite a head scratchier at times and challenging for players. The negative to this is that it can also mean that one player has a bad time of it in the game. It's not always fair and we have seen a fair few games abandoned as it's obvious one side has the upper hand fairly quickly. Some games also bog down into long time die rolling firefights, depending on the players and forces. The force setup can create imbalances as well so it's better for scenario or planned games.

On the other hand as a straight game Bolt Action (again played with 15mm figs) has given me some of the most fun WW2 games at the platoon scale. Those tend to me more true games but often are more balanced and still have tactics, but more in game than real life.This is very definitely a game with WW2 toys. The games tends to be shorter (by nature/design) but for rolling dice and moving toys around it's pretty fun set of rules. The games are not always fair etc but it seems more of a game with swings and luck etc than a complete white wash. This rules set seems to work much better for the 'turn up with your force and play a random opponent' style game.

I play and like them both but they are quite different beasts IMO. Depending on the mood of the players and what you are looking for the games are quite different.

Note, I still have to play PBI but that's a different scale of game really.

[martin goddard]

Nice to see we are a "broad church" of gamers.

[Sean Clark]

I'll lock this thread now, as it wasn't really intended to be a discussion on the merits of COC over BA 

I wonder whether we need a separate board for 'off topic' discussion. Similar forums have this, but the main purpose of this forum is RFCM rules and Peter Pig in general. I am the guilty party here so hope no one is offended!