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[Nick]

Just been re-reading my Ospreys on Tewkesbury and Bosworth. Both suggest guns were used at the start of battles to provoke the opposition to move forward. Have you considered a cannonade at game start something like RoF? If so guns could then be downgraded a little for the main battle.

Nick
(Just thoughts, please feel free to disregard)

[martin goddard]

I think you are very correct. However a lot of artillery was used as the armies formed up and in the early hours. Therfore the artillery was not saved for an initial fright. 
In BB players usually get 4 turns.
Re-loading is done in both player's turns. This gives  7 turns ( no use in loading in time for the game end)
To wind the gun up by one face needs a  5,6.
If a gun rolls 3D6 for loading, this gives us 7x3 = 21 D6.
This gives 7 successes. Ignoring re-rolls and over achievers.
The gun rotates once just for shooting , thus needs 3 successes to be fully wound up.
This means a gun will probably be able to shoot 3 times in a game. Initial plus 2 reloads.
4D6 for heavy gun = 4x3 D6 =12D6 = 2 half base  kills or 4 with re-rolls.
2D6 for light guns= 2x3 D6= 6D6 = 1 half base or 2 half bases with re-roll.


The deliberate intention by using 6= kill is that the artillery is unpredictable. Lucky volleys. Don't forget that the rounds would bounce their way along after about 100 yards. Each new bounce losses about 50%.  So a light gun bounces at 100 yards, 150 yards, 175 yards, 187 yards etc. losing  killing power as it goes.
A heavier gun might be  160 yards, 240 yards, 280 yards, 300 yards etc...


Hence why the barrels are close to the ground to minimise "digging in".
Accuracy was appalling but who cares if the target is big and deep enough?


Take from this that targets are often out of arc or obscured (no overhead shooting on the flat). Might reduce the shots to twice per game.
Guns need to be able to function quite a lot in order to represent their historical effect.  Otherwise a general might say "well they have shot so no fear from now on chaps". See battles from the English in France 1452 and fear the artillery and the devastating effect on English troops manoeuvring.

The BB guns would at any time usually each have 8 charges ready for loading. Because the barrel is a hollow tube is does not need much swabbing. In later wars (ECW, ACW) wherein the tube is capped off at the base end, those burning bits need getting out. In BB the burning bits are mostly gone. Just slot in a new charge pot, wedge it in , stick a ball down the barrel and off you go.

This method also ensured disaster at Northampton when a sudden downpour got a lot of the powder charges etc a bit wet. Upsetting.

[Nick]

Lots of detailed explanation there Martin. Thanks.
The gun reloading mechanism is one of my favourite bits of the rules. I like the unpredictability, and for light guns the opportunity to gamble with a re-roll.

Nick

[John Watson]

From my reading and study of WOR battles artillery was used only before the battle to unsettle the opposition the night before the battle, as at Barnet, or in a prelimary bombardment on the day of the battle. But as many battles started at or soon after dawn they could not have been significant. I am not aware of any battles that saw artillery used during the battle.

[Nick]

The game was my first use of hand gunners too. Seemed fine. Lost one base when the general took a hit. Only caused one casualty themselves.

Nick

[martin goddard]

Good discussion point.
Artillery in battle. Common I think.
I would clarify that artillery shooting after the armies are deployed  would count as being in the battle. If there are targets then surely gunners would engage them. i would contend It is the loss of target due to being obscured by own formation that stops the shooting rather than a convention of no shooting once the armies start moving.

Artillery was used during the night to harass the enemy but also to identify the position of an army to aid later arrivals.
Artillery used at the start of the battle when the armies are deployed.
Guns used within the defences as the enemy advanced.  e.g the French mercenaries at Bosworth changed their approach direction to avoid Richard's guns (therefore they would rather not be in front of Richard's guns during the battle?)and his main vanward. At Losecote Edward used his guns whilst attacking, to break the will of the rebels. At Ludford the defender guns were distributed amongst the battle line behind carts and stakes to work against the battle attack.

The Yorkist Bosworth guns shooting at Oxford. During the battle? The guns at Northampton were placed for use during the battle. WOTR battles are often poorly recorded by modern standards.   Castillon is  a well documented battle with recording of gun use at short range along with English worries about guns being re-deployed during the battle. Obviously the Europeans were more advanced in their gun usage.  But Edward IV was a new breed of modern commander who used  guns in attacks.

How is this shown in BB?
No overnight /pre-battle shooting as the game starts with the armies deployed.
Guns start the game loaded, so can shoot in their first turn.Initial barrage.
As previously shown, BB guns do not have much effect during the game. This is especially true as their frontage and limited arc become blocked by infantry.
Guns can move very little if at all in BB.



I think BB has it about right, but accept that is a very biased opinion.

[martin goddard]

Played two games today of BB!!
Game 1 = attacker win
Game 2= defender win. mainly because they killed the King. Argh!

In game 2 we used Pike units.
They were not very effective. They stayed out of order for most of the game.
games should not be a game winner historically.
Hand gunners did very little too. Seems about right.

[Leman (Andy)]

This all seems to be moving positively in the right direction. Another club member has expressed an interest in giving the WOR a go using BB.

[Nickdives]

Martin came up to the Wargames Shed in Yeovil on Friday. We played 2 games using my 28mm chaps. The first game was fairly straight forwards, in game I used Cavalry and handgunners and Martin Heavy and light guns. The former proved effective against my levy on a hill however he was not able to exploit the situation as after a few moves my Cavalry arrived and swept his chaps away, some good dice!

All in all a good game, I have never played the old Bloody Barons, and a good day, Martin even left some chocolate cookies!!