The 15 Mill

[sjwalker51]

Sean, you reminded me of a good point. Look what Rich Clarke has achieved in building up the Too Fat Lardies 'community' despite being essentially a 1-man band: multiple (and active) FB groups for each of his core rules, gaming days dedicated to TFL rules across the country etc , high profile in the hobby press, both online and print - look at the multiple threads discussing the relative merits of CoC and BA on TMP.

Look at what Pete has done at Baccus to push the benefits and value of 6mm historicals, or Leon at Pendraken for 10mm - even more niche scales compared to 15mm, I suggest. I remember when 15mm was actively promoted as the 'sweet spot' between 25mm and 6mm offering well sculpted and varied figures, mass appeal and value for money compared to the others, but that's not so evident these days, though most of those arguments remain relevant to this day.

What are the 15mm manufacturers doing to cooperate and push back against the resurgence of 25/28mm in the last, what, 10 years?

The old argument that 28mm demo games are more eye-catching at shows or in magazines just isn't so relevant these days - these days, the vast majority of gamers are inspired to try new periods, scales etc by what they see online, not at shows or in print, where the actual size of the figures is far less important -massed 15mm battalions look just as good as 28's (or far better when that battalion is 48 15's rather than 12 28s!)

[Leman (Andy)]

I have never subscribed to the eye-catching aspect of 28mm at shows. Usually the displays are on something like an 8x6, often surrounded by hunched up men unwilling or unable to make eye contact and talk about their game. The sheer size and effort that goes in to their creations puts me off, even though I do do some 28mm gaming. My 28mm games are never on that scale and I wouldn't be able to manage that anyway. I am usually attracted to 15mm, 10mm and 6mm games at shows. I have even seen some beautiful 2mm games, which inspired me to develop my 3mm ACW land battles (currently painting more of these as they can be easily accommodated in my temporary painting corner). The sheer spectacle of what can be achieved on a 6x4 or smaller with 15mm armies and well-produced terrain can not only be very inspirational to a novice, but also appear achievable. Take a look at the 15mm photos in Warlord's Glory Hallelujah ACW scenario book.

[Leman (Andy)]

It is a very valid point, especially as I have used some QRF figures to fill in some of the gaps in the WWI PP range, and they are definitely slightly different. The most noticeable is the kilted machine gunner set where the QRF maxim is less bulky than the PP model. However, the QRF figures are 15mm in the same way that PP are. Then along comes the like of Blue Moon - these are definitely not 15mm and do look odd when mixed in with 15s.

[Colonel Kilgore]

I'd stick with a slightly expanded and more widely distributed version of the newsletter you used to do about 5 years ago, including short articles that might make people realise the potential of 15's:

How to do headswaps on 15mm figures
Proxies for Campaigns not yet covered/reviews of all ranges available for specific campaigns.
How 'skirmish' games like SAGA or Sharp Practice look great when you substitute a stand of 3-4 15s instead of the single 28's usually seen.

It's often mentioned on CoC and Bolt Action forums that 15mm figures are perfect for the rules' ground scale but the vast majority of players use 20/28mm because they're unaware what's available out there in 15mm - and social media offers great opportunities for smaller (!) manufacturers to reach a much wider audience at relatively little cost.

Look at the number of times Perry's or Warlord (each with 20k+ followers) post 'stuff' on FB, not necessarily product or sales related. Very often it's accounts of games played on great looking tables with nice figures. Khurasan (3k) is very active there but most 15mm manufacturers have less than 1k followers. Got to ask yourself why and how this can be changed.

I think that there are some great ideas and themes here.

[martin goddard]

My initial thoughts are ; if a company calls its stuff "15mm" then it is a good candidate for the "15mill". If it calls itself "18mm" then probably not. Of course this still allows for a lot of approximation, but that can be said in the reviews or by the company themselves. It is the statement "15mm" that matters most of all. I would also say that many items not specifically labelled 15mm can be included in the magazine if they help 15mm players.




The companies that would be "uninvited" would be those that are rude (editorial team judgement), dishonest (do not comply with consumer laws) or we find annoying (having had a chance or two to sort their heads out).
The 15mm Mill would have an unashamed bias toward PP and not pretend to be a mouthpiece for all 15mm producers.



Marie Antoinette was the 15th out of 16 children.  That is hard work.

[martin goddard]

Another little reveal.  Seeing as how all are very keen on rules in the magazine. A special pack now and again, that can be bought well ahead of the rules publication.  What I mean is (a totally fictitious example)
1. A pack goes on sale called "warrior challenge".
2. The rules called Warrior challenge gets published a month later or so.
3. The pack contains 8 figures drawn from other PP packs. 
4. The rules , of about 1 page, are published and use the contents of the warrior challenge pack.
5. Owners of the special pack paint the soldiers and play the game  few times.
6. The special pack then just blends into existing player armies or sits in a special little box (aways little) to be gotten out at Christmas or birthdays.  possibly also if a club meeting was only 30 minutes?
7. This is an idea that has never been done before. Well, not since Pharaoh sent out a chariot wheel to each of his commanders and insist they run around shouting "wheel all be fine". No, didn't catch on then either!


You order the special pack. Maybe it comes with a special backing card. Paint the little men. Get the rules from the 15 mill. play the game many times. Adjust the rules and feed back improved versions to the 15Mill. (see how the title works?). Also send in reports of how  your improved (don't worry i will not be offended) version works but it mist have a picture or two too to to.

One new game per quarter. All trivial . All  fun (if you are a wargamer).  All achievable in terms of paint time, play time  and feedback.

Another great idea which may well happen!!?

Are you exited?

[Duncan]

Strange how we interpret what we read, i was reading through thinking the exact opposite and what a relief it wax that people wanted the focus to be on minatures and not rules.

Still, that aside i do like the idea of small character packs being put out every so often with short, sharp rules to back them up. Maybe it could be used to test the waters for potential larger projects if they prove popular. Things that we have discussed many times. I could think of many small halfva dozen or so figure games based around scenarios like, Robin Hood, Highway men/women, Western street fight, some sort of sci-fi car chase, (on small rolling board.) WW1/2/cold war spy type scenarios; the things we could think of are possibly limitless and many of us will have enough supporting scenery already.

Perhaps a couple of battle reports from the previous month could feature in the next magazine so people can see how it turned out and maybe discuss updates or further options for enjoyment!

As it is getting near Christmas how about kicking it off with a Santa, elf, reindeer type game?

[Colonel Kilgore]

Lots of good stuff there, Martin and Duncan.

I do like the idea of a "special pack", and the chance to actually paint the little men before the rules come out. And this could also whet appetites for the painting of larger forces by subscribers.

So, I've not yet exited the conversation, and am indeed excited

[Colonel Kilgore]

Also - when we think about "15mm", shouldn't we also be considering and including the manufacturers of terrain (scenery, building and mats, etc) and other relevant paraphernalia (gaming aids - such as Warbases - and maybe raw materials for scratchbuilding)?

[Duncan]

I would say so, articles about scenery and setting the scene/table would be good. Maybe a how to make X, Y and Z every now and then. Also links to online scenery makers websites especially lo al ones, places you can buy supplies and what they have, not just tbe obvious places either.
What about interviews? We could interview the proprietors of local businesses selling wargaming and model making stuff?

Ps. Has this been amalgamated or am i loosing the thread here?

[Colonel Kilgore]

Duncan - no, you're not losing the thread at all - I took the liberty of merging several discussions around this topic, and also made it "sticky" on this board. I'm delighted someone has noticed!

And I like the idea of "how to make" 15mm stuff articles. There's lots on 28mm in the glossies, but I think there is an art to making suitably-sized 15mm terrain, which goes beyond simply scaling down 28mm stuff.

Some of the denizens of this Forum (and I'm thinking of the likes of Sean, Stewart, Miles, and of course you yourself, Duncan) have produced some very "15mm-appropriate" scenic pieces, and I for one would welcome articles on their production in "The 15 Mill". Assuming the Editor-in-Chief approves, of course!

[Colonel Kilgore]

If The 15 Mill is soliciting articles from contributors, we will probably need some guidelines on length / style / tone / content.

Editing material can take an age, so I'm thinking it will need to be as "production-ready" as possible.

Those of us who have had articles published in the "glossies" will have been through this process and can probably pull some initial thoughts together if needed.

Do you have any views on this, Martin?

[Radar]

Some special rules for RoF covering superstition and plague would be great. Would give the plague wombles a purpose.
I'm not suggesting the illegitimate child of RoF and D&D, more some morale tests of units entering built up areas - a witch lives here, so your troops refuse to go near; village has the plague, troops can't enter unless plague wombles have been deployed.

Although Martin would have to  sculpt a witch or two, maybe a witchfinder too. (Would also have a cross over for those wanting to play Witchfinder General in 15mm)

[martin goddard]

Good to see  the sparks flying! Well done.
If it goes ahead, the first issue would be out in January. This is the first quarter of 2019.
I am happy/hoping  for the production value to be a bit "human". By this i mean that it is for the common man.

Painting
The painting can be of everyday quality. If someone paints really well then all the better. I would like to see figures that are painted and used for games , not intimidating examples  of brilliance.
Articles
Any length really. No need to make them too professional. Someone (a master of the universe) will check it for basic spelling and good taste. Apart from that anything goes. Folk write an article and it gets published.
If an article has no pictures then that is fine too.
We will all have to be careful with copyright material lifted from another site or company site.


The watchword will be "achievable".   The 15Mill would still need to be put together after a year or so, when enthusiasm has died down.

In addition it will need the weather "I am not going to do an article, but you should do it how i like it", "this magazine is not up to my own exacting standards", "why is there an article there which does not interest me", " Top gear spends more than you do on staff expenses", "it was all my idea", "can you reduce the price", "why don't you (insert time consuming activity) that i have suggested it (took me 11 seconds) , all you need to do is spend hours putting it into action. I can't because I am busy", "use QuarkXpress, it only costs money".

This is intended to dampen any enthusiasm to  realistic targets.
The 15Mill will not have and does not need an initial   wide circulation. It needs to develop into a reliable and comfortable magazine that will not wear out it's contributors, assemblers or readers.

It's strengths will be "Down to earth format/content", "much needed 15mm focus", "variety" , " feeling of I could do that" and of course the cache of reading a magazine designed by very ordinary gamers for very ordinary gamers.  Plus of course the industrial might of PP and RFCM.

What the 15Mill will not have. Outdated man stereotypes of "her indoors", "drinking lots of beers", "having served on the Russian front" , "my 10 x 12 proper sized man table"and "serious wargamers".  Instead as much as possible will be done to cater for both genders, varying wealth, varying time  allowance, varying paint skill, varying period interests  varying ages. These things are worth catering for, albeit that will be difficult at times.


Not intending to have any unfunny cartoons at this stage either.

15Mill will be about playing games with 15mm figures as the primary function. Other stuff will enhance and support that function.
A long post here, but thought it unfair to raise expectations to unrealistic levels.

[Colonel Kilgore]

Excellent - that pretty much covers things for the guidelines, then!