Greek galleys

[Lluis of Minairons]

This week I've finished a couple of 3D printed galleys, that had been sitting on my workbench for some time.



These designs weren't the most accurate ones I've seen, but after a little work I believe they look fine enough now.
I scratch built masts and sails to replace the original ones, using Evergreen rods and cardboard. I also added some 3? 4? mm hoplites to crew their decks.



I couldn't say what scale they are - this would depend on what precise kind of ship the designer pretended to reproduce. If it was a pentekonter as the single row of oars seemingly suggest, then they would be 1/350. However, the full combat deck over the oarsmen deck strongly suggest it to be a trireme design. Then their scale would be closer to 1/450.



BTW, my gaming mate Alex also painted one of these and posted a YouTube video on the matter:

Regards,
Lluís

[Colonel Kilgore]

That's lovely painting, Lluis!

Simon

[martin goddard]

Very nice Lluis.
If you are gaming with them, what game rules are you going to use?


martin

[Stewart 46A]

Nice Lluis, not slowing down yet?

Stewart

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

I love the minis but I have a real problem with Ancient naval warfare. My Uni dissertation was on Greco-Roman navies. One thing I know galleys never went in to battle under full sail... they stowed their mainsail ashore at camp and manoeuvred using the sprit sail and even then took that down before engaging. Canvas and rigging was just too flammable and took up too much valuable space on the fighting deck. The sails also impeded rapid course corrections by the rowers. That means that apart from patrol vessels like Rhodian hemioliae and trihemioliae in the Hellenistic period they never risked their sails in combat. For the most part the navies would have looked more like WWII vessels - not that colourful and difficult to distinguish in battle apart from streamers from the sternpost.

[Lluis of Minairons]

One thing I know galleys never went in to battle under full sail... they stowed their mainsail ashore at camp and manoeuvred using the sprit sail and even then took that down before engaging.

Yes I also knew that. But I also want my models to be colourful and nice looking - and this is prioritary to me.
Otherwise, an ancient trieres 1:450 scale model readied for battle would look just as a huge floating timber.

[Lluis of Minairons]

If you are gaming with them, what game rules are you going to use?

Well, we did already give a try to Ganesha Games' Galleys & Galleons ruleset, whose Fayre Winds & Foul Tides supplement gives indications for fantasy and ancient warfaring.

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

Yes I also knew that. But I also want my models to be colourful and nice looking - and this is prioritary to me.
Otherwise, an ancient trieres 1:450 scale model readied for battle would look just as a huge floating timber.

I share your pain... Ancient shipsheds looked like submarine pens and their occupants looked just as menacing, and drab. Still, Hellenistic 'supergalleys' from Antony's 10 at Actium up to the Ptolemaic 18s, 20s, and even the semi-mythical 40 would look fab. The thinking is that they were catamarans - like floating fortresses with towers, torsion artillery and yards from which they dropped 'dolphins' - lead teardrop weights to hole the decks of enemy ships from above!

Neil

[Martin Smith]

For the most part the navies would have looked more like WWII vessels - not that colourful and difficult to distinguish in battle apart from streamers from the sternpost.

I was unaware of this, Neil*. Was this a common way of distinguishing the two sides, (like ECW fieldsigns) and was it used throughout ancient naval history?

* but my naval knowledge is minimal!

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

The jury is out but to coordinate manoeuvres like the Diekplus (breakthrough) and Periplus (outflank) or even just keeping line abreast must have required a degree of coordination and control and a means for ship to ship communication. Individual ship performance could be really affected by how long they had been in the water and their trim. Most were beached ashore overnight (a trireme only weighed 50 tons so could easily be moved by the 170 rowers).
Illustrations and sculpture show shields and streamers attached to the sternposts. These must have been for identification purposes presumably the emblem of the city state on the shield and a streamer(s) identifying the ship/trierarch (much like pilot COs attached streamers to the wing struts of their planes in WW1).
Possibly trumpets gave command signals. Contrary to Hollywood drums were not used for time keeping. The Athenians apparently had flutes playing... Ancient Greek sea shanties perhaps?

Neil