Crusader v Hoplite

[martin goddard]

Hoplite army with 12 hoplite units attacked a 13 proper unit crusader army.
The hoplite army used ADVANCE battle tactics in order to close the gap before the crusader bowmen could do too much damage.

In the fights both Mike and Dennis git lots of hits. Averaging 7 hits out of 16 D6.

In the early fights the Crusaders used DIE HARD to very good effect. No one died.
The hoplites without armour were getting ground down.

The moment the crusaders got pushed off table they  became very short of units.
At this point the hoplites pressed on and won a major victory based on zones and kills.


Bolt engines killed 3 half bases.

A close run thing that could have gone bad early on had there been fewer hoplite units.

The four levy hoplite units were a real disaster. They kept running back when faced with any opposition.

martin

[Colonel Kilgore]

That sounds like a very good result for the Hoplite army, which can be a bit one-dimensional.

Crusader armies seem to be more "all arms" in composition and typically perform well, I think?

Simon

[John Watson]

I'm surprised the Crusaders got pushed off the board. My experience of them is that they have the hammer of God (brethren knights) and these either crush their opponents or die trying. Currently my favourite CK army.
John

[martin goddard]

The crusaders suffered from having a unit moved  due to the scenario.
With an initial gap of 2 zones between the armies.
The hoplites used an ADVANCE so closed the gap quite quickly.
The knights lost no casualties for two turns of fighting due to DIE HARD whilst the hoplites diminished.
The Christian general got himself killed too.  Ouch!
If the hoplites had lost a  single fight against the armoured foot spear  and knight horse they would have become damaged badly.
The 12 units of hoplites gave the Greeks a lot of frontage options too.
The Levy hoplite zone was useless. Every time they got shot at they fell back or refused to move. I eventually found them a safe flank zone with no enemy near. That was fine for them.

Both Mike and Dennis were rolling well. Mike got 6 hits on 7D6. Both players regularly got 7 hits from 14 D6.

I want to amplify the role my levy hoplites played but I cannot.

A good game which was probably decided in the hoplite favour when the countdown was at 12 (last third).

martin

[Colonel Kilgore]

That sounds like a good result for the rules too - a close-run thing for players who know them, and a chance for any army to emerge victorious?

Simon

[martin goddard]

Thanks Simon
I think the rules are about done.
Due to the virus, play testing has not been widespread.
That is a shame because  other groups might find things I have overlooked.
I have tried to overcome this by doing lots of in-house testing.
Not as good, but c'est la geurre.

So close


martin

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

With my military historian's hat on I baulk at such mis-matches across time but this sounds an interesting clash.
In theory the trained hoplites had far better cohesion than average crusader foot. Heavy bronze armour would have fared well enough against foot knights and serjeants. Levy hoplites were the weekend warriors of the ancient world so not much better than the run of the mill crusader levies.
The Crusader cavalry could have made inroads in the right circumstances but a hoplite phalanx was effectively a shiltron so a difficult nut to crack. Crossbows in crusader hands should have inflicted more damage... it would have punched through bronze armour, even stoutly made hoplons. Turcopoles would have been effective but I doubt the poshnobs on horses would have sat back for long and let the plebs have all the fun!

Neil