The development of the WoTR range

[Smiley Miley 66]

The new figures do look great. Just in time as I will be ordering some new Command  figures.
Miles

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

My painting queue is backing up rather but I'm looking forward to getting back to this range. I'm supplementing the staying power of my French Compagnie D'Ordonnance crossbowmen with some pavises courtesy of Museum Miniatures. Even on the larger scale it has been challenging reproducing the civic heraldry of Lisieux, Caen, Honfleur, Evreux, Rouen, Coutances, Avranches and De Brézé (Seneschal of Normandy).

I understand from my research that pavises were something that never really caught on in England, except perhaps in sieges... probably because of the predominance of warbows over crossbows.

De Brézé should be of interest to mainstream WoTR'ers since commanded the French raid on Sandwich in 1457, and was preparing an expedition to England in support of Margaret of Anjou for the Lancastrian cause (which diverted to Jersey). After a brief period of disgrace with the new king Louis XI in 1462 he accompanied Margaret to Scotland with a force of 2000 men, 800 of which were his own. Although he lost most of his troops at a landing at Lindisfarne he continued on as a main commander. After the Lancastrian defeat at Hexham he took Margaret back to Flanders.

[Colonel Kilgore]

Thank you for sharing all this, Neil - it's lovely to read such snippets of history that I for one would never otherwise have heard of.

De Brézé might look good as a casualty figure once I get around to painting up some Yorkists (which I've decided I personally favour to the Chelsea FC of the English late medieval period)? 

Simon

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

What I am trying to say (badly) is that the WoTR gets pigeonholed in popular culture as a quite insular bash between local factions whereas it was part of a far wider set of European affairs with 'furriners' also involved. The WoTR figure range has applications far beyond just old blighty which for PP sales as much as popularising a cracking set of sculpts we should all be considering...
There is nothing more satisfying I have found than getting the accolade of "I would never have thought of using those..."

[Colonel Kilgore]

Neil,

I think you've made a good case for the European context. Apologies for only referring to part of your wider discussion.

Would it be appropriate to suggest you write a short article on one or more of the battles involving Johnny Foreigner? This could then perhaps be turned into a specific scenario for Bloody Barons players?

Simon

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

It is not really my area but I can have a go... or at least provide some pointers and links to people working in the other scale that are exploring conflicts and scenarios off the beaten track.

[Leman (Andy)]

It is likely that Warwick had Burgundian troops at Second St Albans, particularly handgunners. There may well have been Irish troops at Mortimers Cross  and the Tudors would have had access to Welsh spears and longbows. Margaret of Anjou employed Scots, probably spearmen and border horse, as well as French mercenaries, which may well have included crossbows. These would have appeared at Second St Albans and possibly Towton. Welsh spear and longbows were employed by the Yorkists at Edgecote. When Edward IV returned from exile he was accompanied by a small contingent of Burgundian troops, possibly Flemish pike and handgunners, although what part they played at Barnet and Tewksbury is speculative. Henry Tudor was accompanied by large numbers of Welsh, French and Breton mercenaries at Bosworth. There is mention of pikes taking part in the battle of Bosworth. Again there were large numbers of foreign troops fighting for the Yorkists at Stoke in 1487. These included Irish kern and gallowglas troops as well as the troops led by Martin Schwartz - landsknecht/Swiss/Flemish pike (there does not seem to be agreement on who these pike actually were) plus their accompanying handgunners/crossbowmen. Finally, there were frequent conflicts between the Scots and the English when Richard of Gloucester was the Lord in the North in the later part of his brother's reign.

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

I was thinking a little bit farther afield but Leman makes the point brilliantly. 'Furriners' of all shapes and sizes participated in the WoTR as well as our most excellent neighbours the Scots, Welsh and irish. It is perhaps no accident that the law in Chester permitting the shooting of Welshmen (after dark within the City walls and then only with a bow) was not finally repealed from the statutes until 1820. The participation of the Welsh in English history (more likely the other way around) has resulted in long standing stereotypes (as seen in the Welsh/Scots/Irish interlude in Shakespeare's 'Henry V').

My recent reading has pointed to a period of instability in France following the defeat of the English force at Formigny in 1450 with Normandy and Brittany wanting to exert independence from French royal rule. 'The War of the Public Weal' and 'The Mad War'. Then of course there's the favourite baddies the Burgundians... My main point is that historians tend to pigeonhole events into convenient little boxes and that translates down through to the general perception of history. There was no magic light heralding 'oh it's Tuesday, that's it lads, the end of the 'Dark Ages'. Similarly WoTR did not operate in isolation. In pretty much every village in Europe at the time someone was hefting a sword at someone for some reason or other...

Dalauppror's posts https://dalauppror.blogspot.com/        highlight troops from 'First Kalmar Union' of Denmark, Sweden and Norway vs the Germans and the Hanseatic League's encroachments on the Baltic. This brings a uniquely Scandinavian slant to historical events over this same period. He has used Perry minis to great effect to represent various contingents from the C15.

Well worth a look for inspiration

Neil

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

Still w.i.p. but the French Compagnies D'Ordonnance are finally emerging... Archers and Crossbowmen behind pavises suitably decorated with devices from their various Normandy towns/districts...

Neil

[Leman (Andy)]

Those pavises look very good indeed. I have been fortunate enough to hang on to some Jacobite French pike and crossbow, which I bought back in the days of Northern Militaire. They are an excellent match for the French mercenary shown in Mike Ingram's book on Bosworth.

[Colonel Kilgore]

Wonderful painting on the pavises!

Simon

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

Thanks all,
Now all I have to do is finish painting the men behind them!

Neil

[owaincaesarius]

Thanks all,
Now all I have to do is finish painting the men behind them!

Neil

Where are these pictures?

I'm intrigued....

Graham

[sukhe_bator (Neil)]

My figure painting process lulls me into a false sense of completion, when in fact there is a lot of work left to do on pretty much all my figures... I'm going to have to revisit all my units at some point before I'll commit to varnishing!
My Jersey project combatants will just have to wait in the queue with the rest of them...

Neil

[martin goddard]

Hello Neil
WOTR figures should be esay to paint but the metal is the hard thing to get right i find.  Once again I will sing the praises of Valejo et al metallics. they drybrush well.

We await your output.


martin