RFCM

RFCM discussion => Grumbles => Topic started by: Sean Clark on July 05, 2016, 09:27:04 PM

Title: Untidy tables
Post by: Sean Clark on July 05, 2016, 09:27:04 PM
Please don't put your coke can on my table. I usually work really hard to make nice scenery to make my games look interesting. A coke can is a bit out of period for most of my games. Also there is always the risk that you'll knock the can over.
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Leman (Andy) on July 06, 2016, 11:09:33 AM
One evening at my club I had set up a game - terrain, troops, dice, QRS'n all laid out, when in walks a member who proceeds to unwrap his take away on the table. He got short shrift. There is also the thoughtless plonker who, after having eaten his finger food chippie right in you earhole, then starts handling your figures without washing his hands.  >:(
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: SimonC on July 06, 2016, 12:38:34 PM
yup - crisp fingers - pet hate!
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: martin goddard on August 02, 2016, 08:06:46 PM
Had a chap spill a whole pint of beer on the scenery tiles.  Attempted to mop it up with pink toilet paper. The tiles still have a lot of pink on them.

Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Mike Tanner on November 26, 2016, 05:21:44 PM
Quote from: Leman on July 06, 2016, 11:09:33 AM
One evening at my club I had set up a game - terrain, troops, dice, QRS'n all laid out, when in walks a member who proceeds to unwrap his take away on the table. He got short shrift. There is also the thoughtless plonker who, after having eaten his finger food chippie right in you earhole, then starts handling your figures without washing his hands.  >:(
Greasy finger types are disgusting. Many of these creatures also have wives and children. I hope the affliction of lack of respect for other peoples property/hard work is not hereditary!

>:(
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Leslie BT on December 03, 2016, 07:46:25 PM
Well Sean going to your pet hate.

Only 8 fizzy drink cans, 5 of beer, and 15 cups in the photos of the Piggy weekend.
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Sean Clark on December 03, 2016, 11:46:44 PM
Ha! Well spotted Les . I bet I was responsible  for some of those. Hopefully none on the  actual playing surface though.
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: mgluteus on August 27, 2018, 04:09:34 PM
The attached shows my experience in table litter!

Dick Bryant (cape Cod USA)
No scenario survives first contact with a wargamer
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Leslie BT on August 27, 2018, 04:43:12 PM
Dick.

The only thing missing on your gaming table is a big stick, for the umpire to control the unruly players.

I am sure that Mike and my table at Historicon never became this bad!

Hope that your keeping well.
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: martin goddard on August 27, 2018, 04:49:09 PM
Dick
Very funny! Salutary!
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: mgluteus on August 27, 2018, 05:02:46 PM
Thanks. I still put on PITS as the small cons around here. You all may think the photos were staged but only partly..... I added some papers to the 'after' photo but really, not much! I wish there was  a magic potion I could shrink the offender(s) and impale them on the church steeple. We once tried transparent rulers and measurement items but after not being able to find them on the table, we gave up on that. I tried clip boards but they become more dangerous to the figures so we quit that. I guess the lack of litter is the only thing that video games have going for it.

Dick Bryant
Charge! There are no lead widows!
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Leman (Andy) on August 28, 2018, 08:02:02 AM
I have recently bought two small folding tables from Amazon for next to the players chair for putting rules, QRS sheets and so forth on. I also bought a couple of small craft trays, again through Amazon, for dice rolling. I find using a dice shaker, then pouring the dice into the tray, rather than throwing, keeps the dice in the tray. Admittedly this is in my own wargames room where I have so far only had two player games. Group games down the club tend to still be untidy simply because there is nowhere to put rules etc except on the playing surface, especially if the game takes up the whole table.
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: martin goddard on August 28, 2018, 01:10:04 PM
This leads us to a related question?   That being "is more clutter needed by recent games?"

Games of yore would often need templates for MG, grenade and artillery. Templates are now out of use??
The rule book would usually be Quarto (smaller than A4) and be more booklet type.
Fewer dice (types and quantity).
Mobile phones and tablets on table take room.

Games of now .
More markers? To show more status situations than older games.
Collectable cards for vehicles and characters.
More snacks and drinks in portable form (personalised coffee, nachos)




PP games create clutter by
1. Use of a game battle sheet.
2. Having reserves/reinforcements off table.
3. Lots of D6.
4. Turn counter.

PP games reduce clutter by
1. Infrequent need for measuring devices.
2. One type of dice.
3. Smaller than 6x4 playing area.
4. Reduced need for rulebook (??)

all just discussion points. You may have other thoughts.

Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Leman (Andy) on August 28, 2018, 06:59:42 PM
I just simply cannot understand how food at a wargames table is tolerated by anyone. Some of my armies have taken literally years to paint. Anyone touches food and then my figures is going to get the hairdryer treatment. I know  some of the poor sods at wargames clubs have social graces issues, but that one goes beyond the pale.
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Duncan on August 28, 2018, 09:19:39 PM
Trouble is that some of us have clubs that start at times that mean we have to take medication whilst at the club and it has to be taken with food, so food is needed. I have to say though that I do think it should not be actually on the war games table itself if at all possible, same with coffee, tea etc, a separate side table is best for all of this, and using your own figures.
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Colonel Kilgore on August 28, 2018, 10:16:22 PM
Quote from: martin goddard on August 28, 2018, 01:10:04 PM
This leads us to a related question?   That being "is more clutter needed by recent games?"

Games of yore would often need templates for MG, grenade and artillery. Templates are now out of use??
The rule book would usually be Quarto (smaller than A4) and be more booklet type.
Fewer dice (types and quantity).
Mobile phones and tablets on table take room.

Games of now .
More markers? To show more status situations than older games.
Collectable cards for vehicles and characters.
More snacks and drinks in portable form (personalised coffee, nachos)




PP games create clutter by
1. Use of a game battle sheet.
2. Having reserves/reinforcements off table.
3. Lots of D6.
4. Turn counter.

PP games reduce clutter by
1. Infrequent need for measuring devices.
2. One type of dice.
3. Smaller than 6x4 playing area.
4. Reduced need for rulebook (??)

all just discussion points. You may have other thoughts.

I think the carefully designed use of visually attractive counters in RFCM games reduces both clutter per se and the negative visual impact of what is used.
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Leslie BT on August 29, 2018, 11:14:55 AM
Simon you just wait until you get your pieces of eight laid out, you'll need the extra table then.
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Colonel Kilgore on August 29, 2018, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: Leslie BT on August 29, 2018, 11:14:55 AM
Simon you just wait until you get your pieces of eight laid out, you'll need the extra table then.

Yup - I will be picking up my crew / sails / cannon models for counters at Salute. But I find such counters in keeping with the game and not "clutter" in the sense of an eyesore. My mat should be with me shortly too with any luck, to allow play testing to continue chez nous.
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Leslie BT on August 29, 2018, 07:38:30 PM
Salute!! Your planning early, for the show next year..
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Colonel Kilgore on August 29, 2018, 10:17:10 PM
Sorry, Colours...  :-[
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Leman (Andy) on August 30, 2018, 12:01:09 PM
Here is one of the small side tables I was talking about.  At the start of the game it is already full of game articles and markers. Also one of the dice trays I painted up and prepared. Both through Amazon - table just over £15, the tray just over £3. Two of each is less than a battle mat for tidy games in the future.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1896/42553643750_764f7a8508_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Big Mike on September 01, 2018, 10:50:27 PM
If we as wargamers dislike the table clutter then imagine a visitor trying to understand what the game is really all about. Markers on the table edge are just about OK as they need to be visible to all players, but it is the paper work that should be kept off. Fortunately at the Weymouth Club we have more chairs and little tables than we can use so I have a chair to sit on and one for my rules.
Martin's summary of the PP games' effects on clutter sets a challenge. How to write a set of rules that needs No clutter!
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: War Monkey on October 16, 2018, 04:24:12 AM
I have side tables as to reduce having clutter on the gaming table and absolutely NO Drinks on the game table, and "Handy Wipes" or "Towelettes" on hand for all those eating chips and alike. Hey it's "My House My Rules".
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Leman (Andy) on October 16, 2018, 07:32:40 AM
No one would get through the door of my house intending to play a game whilst eating chips. Whatever happened to good manners?
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: martin goddard on October 16, 2018, 09:19:00 AM
Stewart had to send one chap on his way  at a show The chap came and sat down at the participation game table and got his sandwiches out.  Says Stewart "would you like  to play this game".  Reply "No I am just having my lunch".  Well done Stewart. Another instance was a chap who asked for a place on a game (Farnborough). The moment the game  started his dad brought over his sandwiches, crisps and a bottle of beer for the chap, which he put on the game table.  He then proceeded to take very little part in the game having secured somewhere to eat his lunch.  Not much point explaining manners to such folk, as they would be offended, due to it being outside of their social consciousness. They would just dumfounded; their mum lets them do what they like.

Various drunk people have joined in on our games at Historicon. The trick here, is not to start any game later than 7pm. After 7pm the drunks are out and about. having a good game of Samurai at Historicon with Ralph and 4 members of the public. I stood up to lean across the table and some chap snook in behind and stole my chair from under my backside! Luckily Ralph warned me not to sit down.

At a  show in Somerset we put on game of Hammerin iron. It was a joint modelling and wargaming show some 25 years ago. This chap comes along and opens the boxed kit he has just bought. Lays the sprues out on the game table and inspects them. Was a bit chagrined when i asked him to get his kit pieces off the table!

It does go on and on.  But. 80% of players at shows are just fine and their company is appreciated.
Title: Re: Untidy tables
Post by: Leman (Andy) on October 16, 2018, 10:44:58 AM
Apparently the BBC has just discovered dyspraxia and is now intent on making everyone aware of it so that we can be more understanding of it. One of its manifestations is a difficulty in organising things on a small scale. The problem for me is am I seeing someone who is genuinely dyspraxic or am I seeing someone who just doesn't give a monkey's. If I make an allowance am I then inadvertently encouraging the person who just doesn't give a stuff and therefore being taken advantage of. Unfortunately I have now come to the conclusion that this 'let's be nice to everybody' although fine in theory is never going to work in practice. The safest bet is to remain neutral, object when something impinges on you, even if the person can't help it. The world gives the impression of revolving round each individual but in fact it doesn't.