These have yet again been repurposed. The figures shown are the pikemen from the range who have now started to do service as Romandioli pikemen for a new set of rules: Control to Catastrophe: Maximilian. These are a set of gridded rules roughly covering the period 1490 to 1700, although I have bought them to invigorate my Italian Wars figures, which have lain dormant ever since I arrived in the Netherlands. I think I must have been waiting for the right sort of rules to come along to encourage me to pick up my paintbrush again. These rules do two things that I particularly like - they are gridded and the units are single based. Another advantage for my smaller table area is that they are figure scale and grid size agnostic, so I have settled on three inch grid squares and 60mm unit frontage.Units are straight forward as well: deep, eg. Swiss and landsknecht pike blocks; medium eg. earlier Italian pike or Spanish pike blocks; shallow, eg gendarmes, foot and horse skirmishers.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/55193707134_40e9874895.jpg[/img]
Good to see they are still doing military service Andy.
martin :)
Thanks Martin. I am gradually building up a Venetian and a Milanese force from various 15mm sources. Peter Pig is contributing some artillery and crossbowmen.
Quote from: Leman (Andy) on April 13, 2026, 08:47:01 AMThese have yet again been repurposed. The figures shown are the pikemen from the range who have now started to do service as Romandioli pikemen for a new set of rules: Control to Catastrophe: Maximilian. These are a set of gridded rules roughly covering the period 1490 to 1700, although I have bought them to invigorate my Italian Wars figures, which have lain dormant ever since I arrived in the Netherlands. I think I must have been waiting for the right sort of rules to come along to encourage me to pick up my paintbrush again. These rules do two things that I particularly like - they are gridded and the units are single based. Another advantage for my smaller table area is that they are figure scale and grid size agnostic, so I have settled on three inch grid squares and 60mm unit frontage.Units are straight forward as well: deep, eg. Swiss and landsknecht pike blocks; medium eg. earlier Italian pike or Spanish pike blocks; shallow, eg gendarmes, foot and horse skirmishers.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/55193707134_40e9874895.jpg[/img]
Hi Andy
Have you given the rules a try yet....any thoughts? (The Ancients Control to Catastrophe set was mentioned on the Society of Ancients forum a while ago, but I've heard little about them 'in action', so to speak).
Are the Italian Wars possibly a range that could merit a Peter Pig revival, as has been done for TCR?
Simon
Quote from: Martin Smith on April 14, 2026, 07:15:13 AMHi Andy
Have you given the rules a try yet...
As yet I have not played them. I was surprised at how weighty a set they are - over 100 pages, but they do include some army lists and scenarios. However there are some associated free downloads that include further army lists, QRS sheets and a promise of further scenarios. so here are some thoughts so far:
1. To keep the game moving along figures can be based as a single unit.
2. Movement can include diagonal moves.
3. different troop types have different movement rates, from 1 to 3, but a charge uses up one movement unit without the unit leaving its box - simply place at the edge of the box.
4. All movement is carried out for one army before shooting and melee, although provision is made for evade move.
5. Each unit has a strength value ranging from 18 (deep pike block) through 12 (medium depth) to 6 (shallow). When strength drops to a certain point, dependent on unit quality, it reaches a trigger point and must take a control test (morale). This test is also used if a unit becomes disrupted.
6. Certain units experience momentum once they have advanced beyond their deployment zone, such as pike blocks and gendarmes, making it difficult to stop their advance.
7. Similar to Pike and Shotte (Warlord) there is a section at the end of the rules with specific rules for certain troop types, most of which cover the post-1530 period, but there are certain sections very pertinent to the Italian Wars, such as those covering Swiss pikes and Spanish colunelas.
I am still making my way through the rules, but I think the aspect that requires most attention is that concerning the trigger points. Once that is grasped (and I don't think I have quite got it yet) everything just falls into place.
Quote from: Colonel Kilgore on April 14, 2026, 07:54:50 AMAre the Italian Wars possibly a range that could merit a Peter Pig revival, as has been done for TCR?
I think there would be a number of difficulties with that, namely that Peter Pig ranges are normally associated with an accompanying set of RFCM rules and that it would be a huge design project given the troop types and nations involved. Just landsknechts themselves would be a huge project given that a good pike block would require at least four poses of differently angled pikes, plus officers, musicians, halberdiers, two handed swords, arquebusiers, crossbowmen and casualties. then there are gendarmes, lighter men-at arms, at least four different types of light cavalry. Spanish, French, Swiss and Italian style figures. It's an awful lot to ask, particularly as Blue Moon, Mirliton, Venexia (Lancashire Games), Museum Miniatures, Minifigs and Essex are already producing almost everything needed. Even Black Cat were producing a very comprehensive range not that long ago. Then there are the rules: Pike and Shotte, Furioso, Control to Catastrophe, DBR, Maximilian and others. So TBH, given that the most popular PP ranges appear to be the C20th, the ECW and the ACW it does seem a bit of a non-starter.
Andy
This can go one of two ways. Either acknowledgement that the period is well served already, similar to Napoleonics and a bit of a rabbit warren from which one may never escape.
Or, Martin sees it as a challenge to produce the most comprehensive range of Italian Wars figure ever with a set of rules and scenery to match.
Good job I'm not a betting man 🙂
The Italian range I made was to cover Italian armies only.
The Italian states fighting each other would give enough battles for a ruleset.
If I went into this it would be with a range similar to the old one and rules that just cover those Italian wars (again).
Any thoughts about this would be a long way off as there is much to be done soon.
Renaissance would indeed be too big a period to tackle alongside all the others.
Good topic though.
martin :)
Damn, I should have put 10p on it! ;D
I remember looking at the WRG army lists years (decades?) ago and thinking what a wonderful army an Italian States one could make.
Working title for the rules: "The Prince"?
Simon
The Prince is an interesting book Simon.
Borgias?
martin :)
You've got to love all the murder and intrigue!
Lots of scope for gaming narrative context here, I think.
Simon
My approach is to tackle the states first, thus Milan and Venice will be my initial antagonists, followed by the Papal States, Borgia, and Naples. these states could be assisted by Lansknecht and Swiss mercenaries, with the Spanish stepping in to assist Naples, and the French with designs on both Milan and Naples. I might even have Leonardo coming up with some nifty ideas - which reminds me that I forgot to mention the range produced by Alternative Armies (also responsible for the Furioso rules), which includes Leonardo and his tank and other personalities such as Machiavelli and a Venetian ambassador.
Quote from: Leman (Andy) on April 14, 2026, 08:59:36 AMQuote from: Martin Smith on April 14, 2026, 07:15:13 AMHi Andy
Have you given the rules a try yet...
As yet I have not played them. I was surprised at how weighty a set they are - over 100 pages, but they do include some army lists and scenarios. However there are some associated free downloads that include further army lists, QRS sheets and a promise of further scenarios. so here are some thoughts so far:
1. To keep the game moving along figures can be based as a single unit.
2. Movement can include diagonal moves.
3. different troop types have different movement rates, from 1 to 3, but a charge uses up one movement unit without the unit leaving its box - simply place at the edge of the box.
4. All movement is carried out for one army before shooting and melee, although provision is made for evade move.
5. Each unit has a strength value ranging from 18 (deep pike block) through 12 (medium depth) to 6 (shallow). When strength drops to a certain point, dependent on unit quality, it reaches a trigger point and must take a control test (morale). This test is also used if a unit becomes disrupted.
6. Certain units experience momentum once they have advanced beyond their deployment zone, such as pike blocks and gendarmes, making it difficult to stop their advance.
7. Similar to Pike and Shotte (Warlord) there is a section at the end of the rules with specific rules for certain troop types, most of which cover the post-1530 period, but there are certain sections very pertinent to the Italian Wars, such as those covering Swiss pikes and Spanish colunelas.
I am still making my way through the rules, but I think the aspect that requires most attention is that concerning the trigger points. Once that is grasped (and I don't think I have quite got it yet) everything just falls into place.
Thanks, Andy 👍👍👍
Quote from: Leman (Andy) on April 13, 2026, 08:47:01 AMThese have yet again been repurposed. The figures shown are the pikemen from the range who have now started to do service as Romandioli pikemen for a new set of rules: Control to Catastrophe: Maximilian. These are a set of gridded rules roughly covering the period 1490 to 1700, although I have bought them to invigorate my Italian Wars figures, which have lain dormant ever since I arrived in the Netherlands
Looking very good, do love a good push of pike
P
It is a shame that PP does not produce an Italian Wars range. Of all war games figures from any war or period Italian Wars is my favourite and I know Martin would do an excellent job. However I do understand the reasons why Martin is not going to do them.
So if Martin is not to be persuaded by the Italian Wars where should he go next. What war or historical era should Martin plunder? Whither the Pig? My vote would be the Crusades.
John
An RFCM wishlist crops up from time to time on this forum. I've always had a hankering for the French Indian Wars or the War of 1812.
It's always fun to hear what is on other people's list, but as ever with the things, time, money, interest and probably a dozen other factors prevent most from coming to anything.
Currently I can put on 19 different RFCM games with just fantasy and sci fi missing. But, we always want more!
In fact having thought about this, I might look at developing an article for the Mill to play the FRench Indian War using a current RFCM rule set. A variant of Vietnam or Patrols in the Sudan would be my first thought.
I think Derek was working on adapting Washington's Army for the French Indian Wars.
John
I hope the varied systems of RFCM can be adapted for many if not most wars.
RFCM has about 7 very different (ie major concepts) systems.
Gamble until done= Vietnam, PITS, Longships
Doubles= TCR, Medieval
Vary number of D6, not scores= PBI
Restricted option Cards= HI
Accumulated D6 fights= CK
Table regions= BB
Small table = Land raids
Wounded and prizes= Western
Compulsory army basics= FM, SCW
Limited orders= Abteilung
Victory on scenery ownership= AK
System of 3s= PITS
etc.
French and Indian wars would suit PITS I think?
Most missions would be regular troops of either side doing something.
The Indians and associated troops would be the Dervish.
An easy conversion (possibly).
If Peter Pig did this, then a range of figures would be needed because we always support the rule sets.
martin :)
To be honest anything to do with America "Indians" would be suited to Pits !
Why not explore the Wild West side of this option as there is a PP range already !
Then it would be possibly easier to adopt the rules to suit ?
Miles