This is more of looking at the Architect. Why is the 37mm turret gun been given an HE value of 0 ? But all other 37mm have been given a value of 1 ? As the Lee even in the Jungle/Paciffic they developed a 37mm "Grape shot" round for clearing the enemy infantry around the tank ? So that would be an HE value of 1.
Also Cromwell CS and Centaur CS tanks are basically the same tank, only Engine details (liberty and Merlin) was the only great differences between them. So why is the are the Armour, Ap values are different as they both had the same 95mm gun ?
Also you put the Churchill mk V11 and Mk V111 as the same tank ? The Mk V111 is the CS version of the Mk V11. The same up Armoured vehicle but had 95mm Howitzer rather than 75mm QF gun.
Also no value for 75mm gun on the Crocodile tank ? Just says "Flame" ? Also makes the Flame look as if it can fire 360, rather than the front Arc only...
I haven't had time to look at the others. I will do ?
Miles
These are only little things but they need to be corrected if they can ?
You mention this now Miles, after 10 years with the 2015 Architect?
Just change your own Architect if you need to.
I am now working on TCR and AK Miles.
martin :)
Miles
You can always point up the vehicles yourself using the table in the rules. As it says in the rules, if you disagree with a vehicle, design it how you see fit but pay the points.
Actually I did mention these and pointed them up a couple of years ago, I posted the results on here and sent you and a few others an email with the same changes on it.
These were only minor changes as I ve highlighted in my last message.
But unfortunately Stewart told me they were irrelevant and insufficient at the time after I had posted them ?
I was hoping you might have taken a look at them but after what Stewart said ?
Plus I never got to see the Architect before it went out ? Otherwise I would have pointed these bits out ?
The above are just the obvious ones !
There are others some only slight others which are not so slight ?
Miles
I just looked back. This is when I posted it !
Normal Tank Values. PBI 2020 reassessments.
Started by Smiley Miley 66, June 29, 2022, 05:33:15 PM
Miles
Thank you Miles.
I must apologise for forgetting it.
I can make some changes based on your thoughts.
Luckily the PBI 2025 is all done now.
Apologies
martin :)
It was my understanding that the new CA was going to be like the C&K army lists, that is a living document which could be amended and up dated online, so that changes like those Miles mentioned could be addressed with a minimum of fuss.
John
This is a huge advantage over printed copies. Any amendments should they be needed can be downloaded easily.
Sadly not John.
I need to charge money to stay in my home.
Others may have financial advantages that I do not.
The CK army book is an oddity, as I intend to keep adding armies. Therefore it is not a finished product. When I think it is finished I will then charge for it.
The Architect is a finished book.
I hope to make the PBI rule book a printed version if the pdfs are well received.
martin :)
I can add the changes to the existing pdf and re-send if anyone wants it?
Just e mail me and I will do that for you at no charge.
martin :)
Martin, why don't you put out a request to all play testers of PBI to check through the Company Architect and let you know of any errors/changes that they think need to be changed, with evidence if appropriate. Put a deadline of, say, January 20th to reply. Then you can sift through the recommendations/requests from the play testers and adopt the changes that you think are valid. That way it can be done in one hit.
No silly ones though, like my Nepalese toe gun should have an AP factor of 30!
John
I could kick it off with a query about the 25pdr. This is listed as a towed gun as AP effect 7, but when mounted as a Sexton or Archer etc the AP effect increases to an 8. This is the case for the British, Australians, Canadians and Indians. I don't know which is correct 7 or 8 but I would have thought that the gun effect would be the same. The HE effect is 3 whether it is a towed gun or mounted on a vehicle.
John
I suspect and know that there will be an infinite number of disagreements on this forum about the architect values John.
I am still remembering the AA shouts.
Should we discuss each one? Possibly. Do I have time for that? Probably not.
I suggest that RFCM members just change whatever they like for their own games so long as they pay the correct points for it.
The architect should be applied on PBI days.
Apart from that, players can do whatever they like with their own games.
They can give the PIAT a bigger 3 square range, make the Bren as good (or better) than the MG34 or even add the odd Panther or Tiger II to their force.
martin :)
Martin when he gave us the new version of the rules also added some tweaks to the vehicle points.
Here is list 1. Mainly British with Sherman's included, so USA players can look at this list too !
I will add a mainly Infantry tank list shortly. If people are happy with want they see I will start on a German list.
I ve put this up as Martin wants a "Normal" company so hope this helps in putting out some tanks that should fit into this category? There is also some of the other versions of the vehicles that will be encountered as well.
All the values are as Average.
British Tanks. All Average points
Matilda 2. 2pdr HE 1
Armour. 7. X2. =14
Gun. 7 x3. = 21
35 minus 4 points HE1.
Total value. 31
Matilda 2. CS 3inch Howitzer HE 2
Armour. 7 x2. = 14
Gun. 4. X3. = 12
Total value. 26 no adjustments HE 2
Grant/Lee 37mm/75mm. HE 1/2
Armour. 6. X2. = 12
Gun. 6 x3. = 18
Plus 5 points 2nd gun.
Total value. 35 HE 2
Sherman 75mm Mk 1-5 HE 2
Armour. 7 x2. = 14
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Total value. 35
Sherman 2/3 76mm HE 2
Armour. 7. X 2. = 14
Gun. 9. X 3. =27
Total Value. 41
Sherman 105 mm Howitzer HE 3
Armour. 7. X2. = 14
Gun. 8. X3. = 24
Plus 6 points for HE 3 adjustments
Total Value. 44
Sherman Firefly. 17pdr HE 1
Armour. 7. X2. = 14
Gun. 11. X 3. = 33
Minus 6 points HE 1 Adjustments
Total Value. 41
M10 Wolverine 3 inch A/T gun. HE 2
Armour. 5. X2. = 10
Gun. 9. X3. = 27
Total Value. 37
Achilles 17pdr. HE 1
Armour. 5. X2. = 10
Gun. 11. X3. =33
Minus 5 points HE 1.
Total Value. 38
Centaur CS 95mm Howitzer HE 3
Armour. 7. X2. = 14
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Plus 5 points HE 3
Total Value. 40
Cromwell. 75mm HE 2
Armour. 8. X2. = 16
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Total Value. 37
Cromwell CS 95mm Howitzer HE 3
Armour. 8. X2. = 16
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Plus 6 points HE 3
Total Value. 43
Challenger 17pdr A/T gun HE 1
Armour. 7. X2. = 14
Gun. 11. X3. = 33
Minus 6 points HE 1
Total Value. 41
Comet 77mm HE 2
Armour. 9. X2. = 18
Gun. 9. X3. = 27
Total Value. 45
Miles
Here is the second British instalment.
Miles
British Tanks pt2. All Average Points
Churchill Mk 1 2pdr and 3inch Howitzer. HE 1/2
Armour. 8. X2. = 16
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Plus 5 points for extra gun.
Total Value. 42
Churchill Mk 2. 2pdr HE 1
Armour. 8. X2. = 16
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Minus 5 points HE 1
Total Value. 32
Churchill Mk 3. 6pdr HE 1
Armour. 8. X2. = 16
Gun. 8. X3. = 24
Minus 5 points HE 1
Total Value. 35
Churchill Mk 4 upgrade. 75mm HE 2 including NA 75 version.
Armour. 8. X2. = 16
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Total Value. 37
Churchill Mk 5 CS 95mm Howitzer HE 3
Armour. 8. X2. = 16
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Plus 6 points HE 3
Total Value. 43
Churchill Mk 6 & 7 75mm plus Armour Upgrade. HE 2
Armour. 9. X2. = 18
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Total Value. 39
Churchill Mk 8 CS 95mm Howitzer. HE 3
Armour. 9. X2. = 18
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Plus 6 points HE 3
Total Value. 45
A9 - A13 2pdr HE 1
Armour. 5. X2. = 10
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Minus 4 points HE 1
Total Value. 27
A9-A13 CS 3 inch Howitzer HE 2
Armour. 5. X2. = 10
Gun. 4. X3. = 12
Total Value. 22
Crusader Mk 1&2 2pdr HE 1
Armour. 6. X2. = 12
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Minus 4 points HE 1
Total Value. 29
Crusader Mk 3 6pdr HE 1
Armour. 6. X2. = 12
Gun. 8. X3. = 24
Minus 4 points HE 1
Total Value. 32
Crusader CS 3 inch Howitzer HE 2
Armour. 6. X2. = 12
Gun. 4. X3. = 12
Total Value. 24
Valentine Mk 1 - 7 2pdr HE 1
Armour. 7. X2. = 14
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Minus 4 points HE 1
Total Value. 31
Valentine Mk7 - 10 6pdr HE 1
Armour. 7. X2. = 14
Gun. 8. X3. = 24
Minus 5 points HE 1
Total Value. 3.
Valentine Mk X1 75mm HE 2
Armour. 7. X2. = 14
Gun. 7. X3. = 21
Total Value. 35
M3 - M5 Stuart. 37mm gun HE 1
Armour. 5. X2. = 10
Gun. 6. X3. = 18
Minus 4 points HE 1
Total Value. 24
Miles
You will notice the earlier CS tanks the HE value has dropped down to a 2 and not a 3 ?
This is because it was a 3 in Howitzer (76mm) so not like the up gunned 95mm in the later part of the war ?
Which was a 25pdr Barrel with a 3.7 inch Breach ?
Miles
Which gun option are you using for the 25pdr armed AFV's Miles? Gun effect 7 or 8? The Bishop and Sexton have 8 but the towed gun is 7. I favour the 8 as it is the British equivalent of the US 105mm howitzer. Just need to up the points cost on the towed gun.
John
I think there's a minor typo on page 10: the first of the two lines in the points table entitled "MMG" should read "HMG"?
Easily fixed when we draw up our forces, though.
Simon
Good question John but if you hadn't noticed I hadn't got that far ?
But I would suggest gun 7 as that is consistent with 95mm ? Which is a gun 7 ?
Remember it's a Howitzer not a dedicated A/T gun ? Also the 2 guns aren't much different in calibre 86-87mm to 95mm ?
Miles
It's not just calibre though. You have to factor in muzzle velocity as well. Otherwise the German 88mm wouldn't be an 11.
John