RFCM

This is a topic which I quite like. but recognise the potential impracticalities.

15mm.
10 ish  figures a side as in Starship troopers (the book not the film).
5x 3 table with scenery varying from "desolate" to "very clustered up". Not 20th century ruins of churches and castles.

The first problem is that 10 figures does not make a range worthwhile financially. Although some opponents might be more numerous?

A big amount of scenery needs a bigger amount of money.

I would like to avoid low budget inspiration such as M16 armed walking men on foot. Tanks that still look like WW2 tanks. Communications that need a mouthpiece and aerial.

Technology that looks like it is technology. eg short/no gun barrels. No big rockets. Big chopping sword, belt sander,halberd, hammer drill, bolas would of course be "de rigueur?

Possibly larger robo suits?  I have seen some well done ones. But not those that use WW2 guns on future robots.

Big consequence weapons.

What say you?

martin :)

Interesting idea. I'm currently making an army for a SciFi ruleset which uses bigger units (and in 'another scale', for a game at the club, Xenos Rampant, about 20-40 models per side, depending of effectiveness), but would be interested to see where you went with this in 15mm, my preferred scale, TBH.

Masses of alien 'critters' can be a fun feature.

Swarm type opponents are always good.
They would have to be interesting rather than just quantity.

martin :)

All depends on if you want a "bug-hunt" game with players going out to slaughter (or be slaughtered by) masses of aliens or if you want a game player vs player.  If the latter then have to decide on the scale of the forces involved.

The market has many rulesets available for sci-fi and I think the problem would be more along the lines of trying very hard NOT to clone those games.

Would be fun though.

Derek

It does seem like a crowded market.

I quite like the 15mm Leaserburn type of range.

Simon

Back in the day I had a force of Laserburn Imperial troops and come to think of it they were organised pretty similarly to AK47. The TTG Guys in power armour were cool with missile racks on their backs and mech suits that looked a little like the EVA suits in 'Alien'. A hybrid between Alien and Starship Troopers methinks

Neil

Assuming a ground scale of 1 square (6") represents 500m that would make the 5x3 table = 5km by 3km. assuming the  game represents "fast" action maybe each turn is 20 seconds.

Different worlds=
 Different electronic visibility
Different gravity
Different growths (flora)  and animals (Fauna).
Endurance time.
Weather extremes.

Variables of such a game are
Objectives. Different for the two sides?
How much damage is acceptable.

Science would have to be fudged a lot to avoid amusing/pointless scenarios
Protagonists that cannot detect or see each other.
Adversaries that are so small that a small dog eats them (Douglas Adams)
Poisonous planets that kill everything in turn 1.
Big bomb that also kills everything.
etc.


martin :)

A drop ship.
On table or far above for safety?
No to tanks or AA guns though.
Riddick with his knife?  Or attack ships off the shoulder of Orion?

martin :)

I think a great starting point for mechanics would be AKPE.

3CM X 3CM bases with 2 or 3 figures seems to work.

Would it be 'hard' sci fi, so basically our world 200 years from now...so just different technology?

Or fantastical sci fi, with creatures, big bugs and elves in space?

Have you checked out Neal Asher's Polity series for inspiration? AI abounds in a variety of forms from the simple cylindrical deathdealer like the one that was in Men In Black II to imitations of alien lifeforms to blend in with alien environments. So too for humanoid life - the civilians can be 'modified' as they see fit from Adonis types to outright Furries. Almost all wear 'augs' (basically internal mobile phones). Military types can be amped up biologically with stims and other combat enhancing drugs, augmented like cyborgs with prosthetics when bits get blasted off, or full on downloaded as AI chips into a full cyborg chassis a la Terminator - that way battle hardened troops can retain generations of combat experience after being k.i.a.
That makes for a bewildering array of possible combat types...

And then there's the Prador... intelligent crab like aliens with a penchant for 'coring' out humans to make drone like slaves with a nasty streak of paranoia and a taste for dead flesh...

Neil

We are getting good thoughts here.


martin :)

I wonder if something more along the lines of SPI's 'Starforce' with hi-tech troops  making use of  jet packs in-between  using  the ground as cover. Might be a little different from other Sci-Fi ranges of which, it must be said, are numerous.

The problem would be small numbers of troops so perhaps the way to make it financially viable might be to add numerous flora and faunas random encounters etc.


In any case I would like the  beloved Phuggs back

Will be historical and based on Star Trek or
Fantasy like Star Wars?

Stewart

Quote from: Stewart 46A on September 25, 2024, 09:35:38 AMWill be historical and based on Star Trek or
Fantasy like Star Wars?

Stewart

I love you say historical based on Star Trek rather than as a fantasy on Star Wars.  How do you determine the difference?   LOL

Derek

I think that was  the joke.
Many  fantasy players believe and are comfortable in their little universe.
One chap at the Colours show many years ago informed me that the colour I had painted the elvs, was not in fact the authentic colour.

Onwards.


martin :)

Derek
Star Wars is just made up from Fims etc
Now Star Trek, that was there before Sky Tv and satellite
Has to be real

Stewart

Continuing the chat.
Some thoughts.

Each force would have a set "pattern or collective"  of actions.
From a choice of 9 patterns?

This would restrict (maybe a lot) what the whole team (10 figures) can do.
Maybe a possibility of pattern change allowed?  eg. pattern 7 can become pattern 8 or 6.
Patterns each have a theme. attack, defend, find, fast, cautious, carry, smuggle ....


e.g. pattern 7=
A. Movement toward objective must equal exactly 15 shared in any way across the team.
B. Shooting can be directed at range 1 or 2 but at top effect.
C. Shielding is at low level.
D. 2 auto mines can be placed next to team point.

That sort of thing. Different team types allowed to do different things.


10 figures(variable) depending on force type. All in flying/whoosh  mode.


martin :)

That sounds like a gamette, with a few special figures, Martin?

Simon

The patterns would all need to be equally attractive.
Thus, any big plus would need an accompanying big minus.

Use a standard 5x3 with 6" grid?
Smaller grid would be better (3") but that would need a new cloth.

A range of 1 figure?  Man on a stick.


martin :)

Quote from: Flaminpig0 on September 23, 2024, 02:53:38 PMIn any case I would like the  beloved Phuggs back

+1 vote from me. Asymmetric warfare, on the grittier end of the spectrum with an "adversary species" which is a little offbeat - can't go wrong (maybe).

Perhaps some ideas from MOCB could be repurposed:

• Recruitment = spawning?
• Menu of options for each side - technology for the humanoids, special powers for the aliens?
• And from 1st edition MOCB, different victory levels based on wider political goals.

I think we can do something with that.

I will produce a space soldier sometime soon for a bit of interest.

martin :)

Quote from: JohnWyatt on October 05, 2024, 09:36:28 AM

Quote from: Flaminpig0 on September 23, 2024, 02:53:38 PMIn any case I would like the  beloved Phuggs back

+1 vote from me. Asymmetric warfare, on the grittier end of the spectrum with an "adversary species" which is a little offbeat - can't go wrong (maybe).

Perhaps some ideas from MOCB could be repurposed:

• Recruitment = spawning?
• Menu of options for each side - technology for the humanoids, special powers for the aliens?
• And from 1st edition MOCB, different victory levels based on wider political goals.

I think Inhave a packet of Phugs somewhere. I say release the Phug and let them loose upon the Star Marines!

The company that makes Sci-Fi Capybara will clear up

I did wonder, to make this game more different, if scenery might be displaced during play. Some might get blasted away by the little flying men. Creepers might creep, particularly if we are going for smaller squares.

What do you think,  Martin?

Simon

I will put all that in the think pot Simon. Keep them coming.

It will be gridded, just through habit?
3" squares??


I have no real ideas about rules yet but I think we need a set of some sort.
The figure needs more development too.
I think we (RFCM) the team can create something that is very different to the stnadard offering. Of course that might be it's downfall?
Folk don't like too much change.  Better make a tank with a big gun?


martin :)

Thinking about scenery
could use PITS idea of scenery appearing and disappearing as you move down the table and enemy (Alians) apprearing and disappearing

Stewart

I will put that in the think pot as well Stewart. Thank you.

It brings us back to the original RFCM "Company rules" from 1987?
The idea being that the soldiers are company based.
Company Troopers?  "CTs" Company Order Soldier Yazoo  "COSY".

martin :)

Funny, I was going to mention PITS. Possibly also Western, though I'm not entirely sure why. Maybe something to do with game scale and/or having  a variety of forces from basically unarmed settlers to high-tech troopers.

Successful sci-fi rulesets often seem to have a detailed background (even if lifted from popular novels or films) so that the battles feel as if they are part of something bigger. Helps figure designers expand their ranges too. My immediate thought (this plays into the Western genre) is groups of settlers backed by a military-industrial complex attempting to colonise a hostile planet. Each group with a distinct ideology so you can create forces along the lines of AK47, but with a wider range of options (including "back to the land types" who favour antiquated equipment that makes them look remarkably like cowboys). Possibilities of conflict between the different groups, with "star marines" acting as a peacekeeping force.

Meanwhile indigenous aliens (?) on the fringes of the planet are fighting an advancing frontier of colonists and terraformers who prefer a little less sulphuric acid in the atmosphere. Scenarios could include skirmishes, raids and sabotage as well as larger battles. Lots of options for the attributes of the aliens. Possibly the motile vegetation is used as a weapon by one side or the other, possibly it is somewhat unpredictable.

I think I'll go and have a lie down now.

Good to see it has  sparked you John.

martin :)

Have you thought about Urban or Space ship terrain, each room /corridor a square?

Possibly Graham. This is a side project and thus will get less detail.

martin :)

How about an aquatic environment, rather than a planets surface?

Best wishes,
Martin, from a village near Grimsby

Good thought Martin.
I think water would count as a different type of atmosphere?
The troopers would cope well(?)

Gamers find it difficult to cope if the idea is too "different".

Hence why WW2 games seem to be 75% Normandy. Then a bit of Pacific (what no tank gangs?), Desert (not enough T34s and JSII) and Russia (I only own 1 cloth and it is Normandy).


martin :)

Quote from: martin goddard on October 17, 2024, 07:50:55 AMGamers find it difficult to cope if the idea is too "different".




martin :)

Much like people wanting to see the same film/tv show over and over again

Maybe folk find a safe existence and don't want to risk it?

martin :)

From my own experience it's more often the case that people fall victim to the latest craze / shiny toy only for buyer's remorse to set in reasonably quickly. I've been guilty of that on occasion.

WW2, western Europe was maybe popular in the past because many gamers had a relative who had taken part. Also perhaps there was a perception that it was a more "gentlemanly" sort of war than other theatres, plus arguably saw the greatest variety of mechanised vehicles. I've always admired PP for bucking the trend by doing a range for the 14^th Army.

To return to the topic, I would see the challenge of different environments as an important topic for a tactical sci-fi game. Aquatic and indeed aerial adventures might be difficult to represent unless the grid could somehow be turned into a cube. Maybe separate boards to represent x-y and x-z axes... would also mean twice as many figure sales.  :)

Agreed John. There should be a variety of environments with associated challenges.
With only 8 figures there needs to be a reason for splitting up. Scenery might be one of those reasons.

martin :)

Height
The figures will come with wire and a base on which to "fly" along.
It is assumed that most of the time the figures are zooming along at about 10m height in order to take advantage of scenics but not be slowed by them.
Figures will be allowed to be in this fly mode or in ground hiding mode.

The zooming about aspect should make the figures look good on the table. Maybe the wire support could be disguised with some "whoosh" stuff?


martin :)

Maybe we buy / paint two versions of each figure - one zooming and one hiding?

Simon

One thing from Heinlein's 'Starship Troopers' is when troops are airborne or 'on the bounce' they need to dispense chaff, ordnance and acquire targets quickly. They may look cool in the air but they are relatively more vulnerable to SAMs etc. The main advantage to having an aerial capability is unpredictability. Anyone who has seen their offspring playing 'Destiny' will attest to that.

Neil

Flying will give faster movement but less protection.

The intention is to have blocker fences. ie a temporary shield with a similar effect to WW2 smoke. It is put up and then decays with time.
I think a better save when "on the deck" or even buried?
Heinlein is certainly a major  inspiration for me. The books, not him.

I am working on the weapon pod/arm alongside other things for "proper" ranges.
When the figure is done, a few paint jobs might bring the project forward?

Luckily, sci fi gives lots of latitude for imagination and making it fit the rules.

martin :)

Quote from: martin goddard on October 19, 2024, 07:53:34 AMHeinlein is certainly a major  inspiration for me. The books, not him.

Does that mean we are going to get burrowing aliens?

Probably not, as that is difficult to show on a normal table set up.
Gamers will need to be able to use their existing scenery. Extra items will be recommended, but gamers are often reluctant to spend out on new scenery?


martin :)

Quote from: martin goddard on October 19, 2024, 07:53:34 AMHeinlein is certainly a major  inspiration for me.

Some rules for Valentine Michael Smith and his friends would certainly give a different sort of game.

Played the Avalon Hill 1976 boardgame 'Starship Troopers' with a mate of mine back in the day... Nice drop deployment and hidden movement for burrowers with certain detection methods...

Also played this fun shipboard game - you never knew whether your shaving foam would have no effect, annoy them, melt them or make them breed! Thought that'd be a fun mechanism for those first contact situations - kinda like 'Evolution' with fire or Head and Shoulders...
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/162/the-awful-green-things-from-outer-space


Neil

Indeed John.
I do like his plausible plots.

Although the game will not be starship troopers. It is his plausibility I like rather than the exact detail.
The game will not be soldiers v tunnel bugs because such a layout is too difficult.  Both sides will have choice of force rather than a matched pair of bugs and men.  I think most games will be two similar forces of 8 soldiers. Affordable, buildable, with options and smallish.

I am thinking of using some of the mechanisms from SOL.  That is simple.

martin :)