RFCM

Just in case anyone is interested ?
I am putting on the Famous Factory game at mine on Saturday (29th)
Simon and Richard are coming, if anyone is interested please pop over ?
2 games (hopefully) lunch down the pub just down from me. Start 0800-0830 ?
We are seeing how much the new rules affect the game, how the new rules play the table ?
I think they should work well ?
There is a lot of closed spaces on this table.
Miles

(https://i.postimg.cc/TyycFL8J/IMG-0553.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyycFL8J)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3kGWdmvq/IMG-0556.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3kGWdmvq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/zLnLPKDh/IMG-0558.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zLnLPKDh)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xqdCLWmM/IMG-0560.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xqdCLWmM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5H19yG1H/IMG-0561.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5H19yG1H)

(https://i.postimg.cc/d7K3d3RV/IMG-0562.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/d7K3d3RV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cK5Qcsrt/IMG-0563.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cK5Qcsrt)

Hope you have a great game Miles.

So this is a game I developed some years ago, from a poster on the internet, showing that the Maus was in fact from the Porsche garage ! So how can I incorporate this into a game ? Then it came to me to have a railhead ? Somewhere in Northern Germany to try and smuggle out some of the German technology, so they could re-group and fight another day ?
The idea developed and then I found a company in Germany that built 1/100th Paper Panzers, got myself an E100 hull, as well as a PP Maus. Now I have 2 objectives? As both are 100 tonnes plus ! So basically Pillboxes in their own rights !
Then I started buying German buildings from old railway sets, added some track bought a few(cough) Atlas  Editions 1/100th scale trains, (German, British, French, American the list is never ending ?) got some rolling stock. The game was born.
We have played it a few times at Bovington and a few other places.
It has a lot of closed scenery 11 2 square pieces, plus the 2 Objectives. 29 Partial plus 1 Objective plus 10 Open Squares even though some are rough ground areas ! But this is allow for areas under bomb damage etc. But technically there is enough scenery to fill out a 6 x 4 table, but on a 4 x 4 ?
So I am introducing a couple of newbies to the game using the newer version of the rules, they can comment and come up with ideas and possible tweaks to improve the game ?
British are attacking with 450 points of Infantry with 5 vehicles. One Engineer vehicle plus 4 others, no specific points values for now.
For now trying not to have an Engineer support platoon in there ?
Germans will be defending with 450 points of Infantry and 5 vehicles. 2 Armoured Cars and 3 other vehicles. As Armoured cars would be used to patrol the railhead and factory complex rather than tanks!
I am throwing in an idea from V3 rules on the chase. If you go bust on a "6" rather than stop you then forfeit a Risk ? For now: either a vehicle(s) or unit will be put into reinforcement area automatically,so will have to be rolled for in the normal way to get them on the table in the game, even if you have a choice of units etc to bring onto the table at the game start. So making your choice of available units/vehicles for automatic availability limited? Might work might not ?
Still in the development stages as are the (main)rules themselves for the normal game ?
But a great excuse to get "big" tanks out and trains as well, what else does a man want ? Lol
No doubt pictures and a game breakdown will be published over the next few days after the event ?
The 2 pools of British and German vehicles look large, but it's up to each player to select 5 vehicles from each pool ? I ve just given them as large as a choice as possible with all types of different vehicle, depending on what you want them to do ?
Miles

(https://i.postimg.cc/B8cL6bR1/IMG-0567.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8cL6bR1)

(https://i.postimg.cc/r048mPDZ/IMG-0574.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/r048mPDZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ygs1rTQD/IMG-0572.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygs1rTQD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jWzqX1XV/IMG-0573.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWzqX1XV)


(https://i.postimg.cc/K3rx73rn/IMG-0571.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K3rx73rn)


(https://i.postimg.cc/jLcJtD0w/IMG-0560.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLcJtD0w)

(https://i.postimg.cc/MnrMfgGz/IMG-0562.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MnrMfgGz)

I will hope to get a report for the MILL mIles??


Have a good day


martin :)

I was thinking that as I was writing the quick explanation, so I might expand on what I ve written and pictures etc.
Miles

Good day!  Thanks Miles and Simon for including me.

Richard

Shame I messed it.
Hope the Germans lost their mouse :)

This is for Beach head 2024.
Maybe Miles and the chaps can take it to Colours Newbury 9th September 2023 ??


martin :)

Thank you Simon and Richard for coming. Thank you Simon for Lunch.
It was a good day a lot of things to go thru a few lessons learned etc. Some rule clarifications still to be run thru, once CK is finished ! We can concentrate on the PBI rules and get the niggles out the way ?
One thing that did make the game better, something I was going to drag over from the SCW game especially for the German player is the Motivation and rolling each dice for each square. In this game where everything is close together it very much works. So well done Martin in bringing this to the newer Rules. Does make things a lot clearer and easier to manage.
I must make a little "Golden-Metallic" man on a penny base to remind me when I have a gifted leader ?
The "Risk" bit I brought over from the V3 rules I think worked on this Particular Piggy Chase, when you throw a "6" instead of stopping you can encounter a risk? Added a small extra as this is late war and things can happen ? But I will write a better table for this instead of the V3 one. 
Also "up" the dice for German reinforcements ? But might dumb it down a bit ? 8 dice per infantry platoon. Might try 6 next time, unless you combine then drops back down to the 4 !
Had 4 Motorised Veteran British platoons which made 450 points.  But this is effectively a Big table ? The amount of Scenery in it would be expected if it was a 6 x 4 so infantry points do have to expand, but not too much ? It's getting the balance right ?
This is a game the Allies usually win, but we to be able to keep the Germans in the game otherwise the German player wouldn't want to play ?
Richard - Simon Richard (British Win)
Miles - Simon (German win/ kept the British at bay ?)
Simon no doubt will do a report on the day with Pictures!
We do need to play this a few times, now I ve got it out I can re pack this into its own box instead of all over the place.
Yes Martin if you want this for Colours I will take it there ? Can you book this ?
Who else would want to play ? As we would need 2 of us to Run- be in charge of the game ?
Also if the "RFCM group" want us to put this on for Saturday at Beachhead 2024 ?
As the Sunday is a Long Game day ? From our point of view ?
Miles

Reflecting on yesterday.  Should the German infantry deployed in buildings only be revealed if they fire, move, or the building is entered?  At present the British can see them clearly and deploy accordingly. 

If hidden, there might be more reconnaissance by the British - by foot and fire?

Richard

This is something that could be looked at in the "Solo PBI" as this would be a good type of game that could be played using a system like that ?
But for this game as it is, the British/Allies basically assume that all buildings in front of them will have resistance in them !
After reading books/articles on this period that did seem to be the Infantry man's outlook, every obstacle/building was a possible "bunker/pillbox"
So it's only fitting that the British basically "Assault" every "Closed" Square or at least attack with  vigour at all times.
Hence the Heavy firepower.
Miles

Except that, as is, the British can still see where the Germans are and move accordingly.  Different to assuming.  Just think it would make it even more interesting.

Richard

Well that's PBI for you !
Some things you just have to let run there course.
Remember though the Germans are there to protect there Factories, not hide out.
What you are talking about would ideally be another game not a "show" game which is what this table is designed for ?
Like I said earlier when this version of the rules are done, and the same side PBI is in the process of being put together then maybe we can apply this game and table to the rules ?
The objective of this game at the moment is to show the Rules off, and show you can have Big guns, Big Tanks, Assaults and Trains all on one table, and make it a worthwhile game for both sides of the table.
This table can be developed and used for a variety of purposes, but for now I would like to concentrate on getting it up and running nicely. Then we can apply other scenarios and objectives to the table over time.
Miles

So here goes for that long-awaited (?  :) ) report from the big fight for Miles' Porsche factory on Saturday.

Game 1 saw Richard and me - both very rusty on the rules - facing each other, with Miles as Master of Ceremonies, provider of scenery and teaboy.

The general set-up is that a (450-point) force of British infantry (Veteran), supported by some (rather powerful) late-war tanks is trying to prevent the Germans shipping out their own newly-completed big tanks from the port at Bremerhaven.

The Germans also had 450 points of Average infantry as defenders, supported by a pair of armoured cars and 3 big tanks (I went for Panthers).

We did the Piggie Chase to determine how many and which units from which side would initially appear, with (initially - more on this later) normal reinforcement rules applying.

First, some details of Miles' spectacular table:

View from the British lines of the town hall and railway sidings:
(https://i.postimg.cc/3WFXhdks/20230429-082422.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3WFXhdks)

From the German side, the key factory "blocks":
(https://i.postimg.cc/1nLjZ44n/20230429-082435.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nLjZ44n)

The railway line, checkpoint to the docks area (off-table) and local Gestapo headquarters (with shiny cars):
(https://i.postimg.cc/sMV0zkfc/20230429-082449.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMV0zkfc)

And looking back in the other direction from the checkpoint:
(https://i.postimg.cc/KRhHqKdC/20230429-082505.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRhHqKdC)

Those unmanned tanks standing around the factory would have been handy later....
(https://i.postimg.cc/F7bn2rvz/20230429-082608.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7bn2rvz)

An aerial view of the front line. The amount of scenery meant that the German MMG teams set up on the factory roof:
(https://i.postimg.cc/mhHny36Q/20230429-082623.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mhHny36Q)


There were many trucks, cars and tanks sprinkled around the factories just for show.

As Defender, I was allowed 2 of my 5 units on, while Richard had just two units off (I think). I selected a MMG platoon and one of my 4 infantry platoons [in addition to the automatic - for this scenario - armoured car security force) and formed a thin field-grey line across the front squares of the factory blocks. This allowed me to cover 2 of the 3 objective squares, leaving the final one completely unguarded (whoops). Off-table I had thee 3 Panthers and the other 3 platoons.

Game 1 started off with swarms of British troops infiltrating the railway siding area, supported by heavy tanks. The Churchill Crocodile flamethrower failed to make much initial impression, but the beast that mounted an HE3 petard took out most of my MMGs at the very outset, leaving my poor Germans feeling very exposed.

Richard did what he should and swarmed all over my positions. By lunchtime in the real world, I still hadn't got any reinforcements on, had few troops left on the table and had lost, or was about to lose, all objectives.

So we stopped there and reflected on what we'd achieved and learned, with me inwardly promising to apply those lessons to the afternoon game.


Some more photos:

The relentless advance of the big green monsters (I had one success with my Tank Hunter asset):
(https://i.postimg.cc/21NFNMm5/20230429-104110.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/21NFNMm5)

Some views of the whole table - not a lot of Germans left by now:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ppshqST7/20230429-111810.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ppshqST7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wtX9bt2v/20230429-114558.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtX9bt2v)

(https://i.postimg.cc/z3cY7SN7/20230429-114602.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/z3cY7SN7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vcxFNgHs/20230429-114609.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vcxFNgHs)

But it all looked pretty spectacular!

Simon

Richard had other matters to attend to mid-afternoon, so Miles and I played each other.

A key change was, as Miles has mentioned earlier, to allow 8D6 (instead of the usual 4) per unit when rolling individually for reinforcements. I'd still probably have preferred an additional unit on from the start, but this tweak certainly evened things up a lot.

We used the same scenery set-up for Game 2. I opted for 2 standard infantry platoons from the off, which allowed me to cover more ground. Learning from Game 1 (when the Brits just walked into the checkpoint Objective), I parked the 2 armoured cars on it, as well as detaching a rifle base from one of the infantry platoons.

Unfortunately, the German front line again suffered heavily on Turn 1 from the British tanks  this time the Crocodile burned up several bases:
(https://i.postimg.cc/tZ1GGYtW/20230429-143146.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tZ1GGYtW)

The British took longer (poor dice) to edge along the railway line:
(https://i.postimg.cc/hzQ63Nc0/20230429-143152.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hzQ63Nc0)

My own armour came on much faster this time:
(https://i.postimg.cc/JsdTVKTY/20230429-151344.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JsdTVKTY)

The Panthers took their revenge on Miles' Crocodile, and then two of them peeled off to reinforce the right flank:
(https://i.postimg.cc/LqL0tLTy/20230429-161209.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LqL0tLTy)

This time, by feeding in reinforcements (all but 1 platoon made it on, I think), the Germans held the line and 2 of the three Objectives. The Germans may just have edged it (we didn't count points in this trial game), but it certainly felt like a good fighting draw.

Simon

Lessons learned for me included:
- all Objectives need to be manned from the outset - things can move very quickly
- Panzerschrecks (with their powerful AP value and 2-square range) scare the Brits - one base on my right flank in both games dissuaded the British armour from advancing along the railway
- Panzerfausts are good value at 1 point each: even though they achieved nothing in either game, the threat of any German rifle base having a big bomb on a stick helped keep the British tanks back from the front line (well, mostly...)
- German MMGs are not good value. They only ever have one more shooting die than an MG42 LMG team would have, they cost more and they take time and AP to set up and take down when moving. I'll try either a mortar team or bigger infantry platoons next time
- the Tank Hunter asset is a good one, since the British tanks' armour is not that thick; however, you need to use them early in the game before the path to the enemy tanks is blocked by enemy infantry and/or they get opportunity fire when the tank hunters arrive in a proximity square
- the Germans need big units to absorb the inevitably heavy casualties. I will include 2 SMG bases in each infantry platoon next time [mine all had 5 rifles, 3 LMGs and a Panzerschreck, in addition to an SMG-armed platoon commander], as well as swapping out a couple of rifle bases for Assault Rifles [not strictly allowed in the army list for standard infantry, but there is some evidence for their use by normal Heer units, I understand] to pack a bit more punch
- the British need to both pin squares into which they are assaulting and bunch up to stand a good chance of taking German-held buildings. This in turn offers good targets for German automatic weapons (with the doubling of shooting dice for crowded targets).

Simon

Good analysis Simon.
I think most of them would apply to normal games too?


Your thoughts?


martin :)

Martin,

Broadly, yes. The big unit thing is perhaps more specific to this particular scenario of attrition, although it's always a balance in PBI how you organise your forces.

I might not always go for Tank Hunters, but in this tank-heavy game in which the Germans would be foolish to emerge from cover to take on the British tanks that just stood off and piled in big HE and flames, they were a boon.

Simon

Impressive effort chaps.

Interesting discussion too. Well done 👏👏

Very interesting game and discussion. I'd like to try a Russian assault using heavy tanks, 203 mm howitzers or SPGs in support.

Best wishes,
Martin Buck

The only thing that stops that is a rule PBI has. After HE has shot into a square, each base is only ever hit once. So if you have an HE factor of 5 (big guns especially Russian can have) unless you have more than 3 in a square, 2 plus hits will not count. So the Churchill AVRE basically became redundant, so in the second game I replaced it with another Crocodile?
Not saying it is an unfair rule, as it is not. A line has to be drawn somewhere with certain things otherwise chaos can consume a set of rules.
Miles

Got some "new" trains and Rolling Stock to add to my little collection.
Miles
(https://i.postimg.cc/zywQFc1m/IMG-0594.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zywQFc1m)

Looks like they have been served up on a platter for you Miles.


martin :)

They had been in a loft for years so I gave them a quick wash, while the weathers nice.
Cost my £80 all in but they are all Genuine German pieces so more realistic for the game setting.
Miles

It could look really good if we had trains slowly chugging up and down the table, Miles!

Simon

Would need a bigger table.
Miles

Surely not a problem - everything is big in this game!

Simon

It's been a while now, but the Table for Colours is in its finale stages being made ready for Saturday's Colours to be able to present along side PP game and Trade stand, what an honour that is. Please come and say hello. With a few of us representing RFCM, help roll a few dice too ?
More pictures to follow.
Miles


(https://i.postimg.cc/fVxCdkkj/IMG-1486.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVxCdkkj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/94CpYV73/IMG-1487.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/94CpYV73)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cvqT6f1L/IMG-1488.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cvqT6f1L)

Looking very good, Miles. Those washes have helped a lot.

Simon

The Hot weather helped with that too, drying out the water very quickly.
If only we had more of this type of weather great for doing scenery!
Miles

You might need to move to Spain, Miles.

I understand that Lluis has had more hot weather than he really needs, recently  :-[

Simon

Here are some completed shots at Colours.
Thanks to Simon and Richard for their help in Setting up and taking down the game and playing. We didn't get too far as a game as a lot of people were interested in the Details on the table.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8FTrwcbw/IMG-1536.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8FTrwcbw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bdSdx1hp/IMG-1535.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bdSdx1hp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/y3yMmf6L/IMG-1537.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/y3yMmf6L)

(https://i.postimg.cc/c67GGJ7f/IMG-1538.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/c67GGJ7f)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rK8XVLg3/IMG-1539.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rK8XVLg3)

Miles

Hi Miles,
Lovely setup and I'm glad it generated a lot of interest.

Best wishes,
Martin Buck

Ir was a mighty game. I think it was the only constructed game. i.e.built as an entirety.


martin :)

Impressive Miles. Will this be at the Weekender?

I was one of those interested in the details. Always on the lookout for good modelling ideas.  Impressive set up and detailing

Sean I am happy to take it to the weekend if people actually want to play on it ?
So if enough interest is Generated then I am sure Stewart will put it in the games list. Obviously that's down to everyone attending to put in a request ? As I am not going to put it in the car for nothing ! I am happy to help run the game a couple of times or so over the weekend?
Especially as we are still very much play testing the PBI rules.
If someone wanted to try a different armies as well then I am happy with that too ? Because I need to see what the differences in game play with different armies and their characteristics would play ? As any special or specific rules need to encompass all of this ?
At the moment the game is being run as a late war game, at some point I do want to try it out as an early war game ?
As the "Tank Factories" could be replaced with another type of factory or warehouses? Storage facilities at a Railhead ?
At the moment we want to look at a normal company as per list see how that runs ? How quickly you run out of troops ?  As this is very much a game of attrition? Then we can start to gauge realistically how much extra points we will need to make the game run the full 36 points ?
Miles

I think Stewart has space for 4 tables this year?
He will know more.



martin :)

Discussed with Miles, he will put on a PBI factory type game at the Weymouth Weekend if people want to play.
Miles will bring 400 point British and Russians ,
Players may bring their own 400 point PBI force.

Just let me know what games you wish to play at the Weymouth Weekend


Stewart

Stewart following our chat on Saturday I can do the following games:-
C & K
Bloody Barons
Washington's Army
CWB
HI
Square Bashing
B & I
PBI

I don't much mind what I play as I have armies for most games.

John

Thanks John

Just a a small note to this. I see our game made the pages of Miniature Wargames !
Miles
(https://i.postimg.cc/dkfkj01T/IMG-1842.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkfkj01T)

Good job Miles.

Well deserved.
Do you want to put on a game next year??


martin :)

You've spotted that you seemingly no longer own PBI, Martin?  ;D

Simon

Saves me from snipers of all sorts.

It has happened a few times at shows where customers did not want to speak to me but instead to Nigel or the "owner" Steve Ward.

Fine by me.

The late Robin Hunt spent a  good deal of time abusing (very fruity language)  me at the Colours show assuming I was Steve Ward. He was not willing to believe that I was not Steve Ward but hey Ho.

Anonymity in a crowd can be jolly useful.

martin :)

I will be sure to send all abusive punters your way in future, Martin - it's not fair that you're missing out on the fun.

Simon

That would be great Simon.
Maybe a queue system?

martin :)

Good idea, Martin.

We could have numbered tickets, and one of those electronic boards like they have in fast food shops to cope with the influx of disgruntled rivet counters?

Simon

Yes happy to put a game on next year.
But a more "Normal" PBI next year probably
But I will talk to the others and see what they want to do ?
Make it a 1944.
Maybe a part of Villers Bocage in the afternoon ?
Nuenen,Holland September 1944(Band of Brothers) ? ( might be the easiest to do ?
US paras and a some Brit Cromwells v a couple of Panthers and Pz Grendiers as the BoB episode?
Whichever one we do - Keep it to a 2-1 ratio with (some)Tanks and Infantry to show the game off ?
Make them short games AM/PM
Will ask Martin on how to make this a viable option in forces ? But keep it visual and playable?
Miles