Great review of alternatives to Warlord Plastic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX0y34fIUqk
Hope this boosts your sales Martin.
Well done to Martin for having the prescience to ensure his figures fitted in with Warlord plastics!
I am incredibly biased, but I don't like these on bit. They are far too tightly packed for my liking and 10 wide figure bases is really off putting even if you can cut them down.
but then I'm not the target for these figures. I have a large ECW collection, of which I'm very fond. However, if these bring new people into the hobby and indeed it generates some sales for Martins excellent range, then that can only be a good thing.
Once my Mexcian forces and Roman faction/contingent/warband/gang are painted, I'll be buying Covenanananters.
Is the warlord epic basing system 60mm or 80mm wide ?
It's all good to know. I just got a free Sprue with my latest copy of Wargames Illustrated. So I will keep this one.
Miles
Hi Miles,
You may find this blog article of use:
https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2023/03/whats-that-bit-supposed-to-be-guide-to.html (https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2023/03/whats-that-bit-supposed-to-be-guide-to.html)
There's a PP head swap too.
Best wishes,
Martin Buck
Quote from: Leslie BT on March 10, 2023, 10:47:12 AM
Great review of alternatives to Warlord Plastic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX0y34fIUqk
Hope this boosts your sales Martin.
A really useful link ✔️✔️. Thanks Leslie BT 👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks to Martin and Les. Both are very very useful.
Having bought a lot of PP figures already, but as yet to start on the "Army" these new figures could very well solve a "problem" ?
I ve always liked how Radar "bulked" out his forces !
Combining these plastic models with mainly PP and some Steel fist models.
One could make so very good looking forces. Including Cavalry.
Also with the new way Martin has represented Pikes using Plastic Broom Bristles !
As with PP games RoF being squared based. Enlarging the figures bases, isn't really an issue as long as you don't over crowd the square, and distract from what the bases represent?
Luckily Sean is coming down to us on Saturday so I am hoping to have a quick chat with him and the others at Entoyment about this subject.
I need to paint my Square Bashing British a bit quicker.
Looks like I am going to enjoy getting into the world of ECW in the months (hopefully)
Miles
From my limited views of Steel Fist they are excellent figures but rather big. They were more in the range of 18-20mm similar to By Fire and Sword miniatures. I'd be surprised if they were a good fit with PP or Epic which are truer 15mm. But I could be wrong.
John
How very odd. I have bought some Steel Fist figures and they are smaller than Peter Pig. Here is a comparison of an Epic ACW mounted officer, a Steel Fist 15mm cuirassier and an old style Peter Pig cuirassier.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52762278649_58e0665788.jpg)
The fella in the first video that Les put up said as much !
Maybe your thinking of Eureka ? John. I know they are bigger as I ve bought some of their ECW and Sudan type figures too.
Miles
The author of the "Keep your powder dry" blog says Steel Fist miniatures are "true 15mm" there are some comparison photos. He also reports some casting quality issues.
Best wishes,
Martin Buck
I got it wrong. It was not Steel Fist, but another company with Steel in the name (I think). They only did a ECW range a nd I think they went out of business. The Steel Fist look good.
John
Steelers wheel?
They can get stuck in the middle.
martin :)
It might be time for me to get my DB+ Polish/Lithuanian army-in-the-making out of mothballs (Mostly Essex, Donnington and Matchlock)...
Neil
Anyway, the good thing to know is that, should one be tempted by the Epic chaps, there appear to be even more options for introducing variety, via Peter Pig and Steel Fist, than there were with the ACW Epic (and the PP ACW artillery is well worth a look for that range).
As someone who made 2 armies from the ACW epic range I can attest to the fact they are much smaller than the standard range of 15mm figures.
Yes they can slice up to 4s quite easily which is something I cant see being possible with the ones shown above although they seem to have a better size.
Am I disapointed with what I have. NO! A number of people who have seen them have made clear they look good and they way I have done each base with a double rank make it look like sub-units when lined up. The main reason for doing it this way was price. However they are nice figures and a joy to paint compared to some other manufacturers.
Derek
Derek, I bought the Epic ACW figures purely to fight Gettysburg. Weird, I know, but the bulk of my metal figures are painted up for the Western theatre. I mention the ACW PP artillery simply because for some reason Warlord provide only the old 12lb howitzer, not even the 12lb Napoleon (go figure?). Some are used with the PP crew and some have been fitted to the plastic crew to get plenty of variety. At least in this P and S Epic there are two types of gun, but again PP to the rescue with the ECW guns and accompanying bits and pieces, especially the gabions.
Derek that's the epic ACW.
The Epic ECW are a lot different. These are 15mm in height and do match up with PP figures.
I would watch the video that Les put on here at the front of this thread.
I ve also put the figures I have against the Sprue that came with copy of Wargames Illustrated, yes the match up.
Miles
Those of you who are discussing ACW are on the wrong thread, the title to this one does say ECW.
So I have no idea why you are comparing ECW with ACW as regardless of name 'EPIC' they are not the same.
It's about manufacturing style and the fact that initially the only way to consider the Epic P&S was to compare it to the Epic ACW, as the range was announced in early February, but the free sprues only appeared last week.
Anyway, the ECW has difficulty floating my boat, but the Thirty Years War is a much more intriguing prospect, especially considering where I now live. I shall be looking to my Peter Pig figures to prepare early TYW Spanish tercios. As Derek has said earlier, the Epic P&S infantry blocks are going to be virtually impossible to split unelss one has really good modelling skills. My intention is to produce classic tercios using the PP armoured pike on 60mm frontage bases, but blocks of musketeers on 30mm frontage bases for the four corners of the tercio, thus giving the classic look. Indeed this was going out of fashion during the course of the war, but was still used in the 1620s against the Protestant League.
A pity there was some misunderstanding about why I used an ACW figure in an ECW thread.
Here is a comparison of Epic and PP:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52834594764_5294e09432.jpg)
I was looking at these epic figures as a middle row "bulking row" as I do like the idea of slightly enlarging my bases to include some more figures.
Miles
The unit "look" is very good I think.
martin :)
Just reviewed by Guy Bowers on the WSS podcast and he recommends (twice) the use of Peter Pig heads on the Epic P&S strips to vary the figures.
Despite co-hosts scepticism, he advocates how easy it is and promises a blog post.
It's the Salute edition, and the absence of Peter Pig is remarked on with speculation whether sales have been impacted as a result.......
Neil
Indeed, I saw a YouTube video about using Peter Pig figures to introduce variety. I took out my Peter Pig figures and found that (barring a couple of packs of marching musketeers) I had enough for an 8 base Spanish tercio for my Thirty Years War project. My figures will also be able to bulk out the cavalry wings quite substantially, and on different bases making them look less like they are on parade in perfect formation. Also looking to get some siege guns as well. Just waiting for an expected divi to turn up in my bank account.
https://youtu.be/XX0y34fIUqk
It is an age old debate, particularly with large formations of mostly similar poses - pike etc. It is an extension of mixing and matching manufacturers to get more variety. Older timers amongst us will recall there being gaps in ranges that had to be filled by other makers to fill the ranks and had to cope with varying sculpt quality. Nowadays, thanks largely to the likes of people like Martin, the youngsters (and the young at heart) are spoiled for choice. The temptation is to use usually cheaper mass produced plastic in fewer poses to bulk out formations of better sculpted metal to make your bucks go further. As long as the metals (in this case PP) get centre stage I can't see the harm since they invariably shine - but the plastic 'levy' troops have to be in keeping with the metals. In the end it is largely down to personal choice...
Neil
I agree with Neil. Using the Epic stuff to bulk out the middle Ranks with PP figures in the important poses is a must.
But what size base frontage would be acceptable? Without going too large ?
Miles
Surely that depends on what rules you intend to use. The Epic ACW are relatively easy to cut into smaller sections. The ECW however are jammed together ready to do the hokey cokey.
I think the main consideration here is folk who find metals an expensive option for an army.
A typical PP army costs about £100.
I understand that this is a major investment for some gamers. It might also be beyond the means of some gamers.
It might be their months food bill or part of an electric bill for those in tough times.
Not many gamers can afford to spend £100 on anything, let alone their hobby. These are tough times for some and they have my sympathy.
Wargamers on tight budgets can save money by using paper soldiers, ebay, bring and buys, plastic multiple man strips , plastic figures or even plain bases with top down pictures pasted on.
These are all workable alternatives to metal figures.
The other main consideration is that of priority. Is a wargames army your priority or maybe you have hobbies/needs which require your money more than gaming?
I am happy to invest £100 knowing that I will get 100 or more games with those figures. I don't need to buy plastic strips, paper soldiers et al. In addition I like a variety of poses and the ability to base figures aesthetically. I enjoy putting together an army in all of its aspects.
Just thoughts.
martin :)
I was talking about something similar today. One of the many reasons that I like Peter Pig so much is that itis essentially a one stop shop.
For something like the ECW, I can buy all I ever need for the period including Scots and Irish.
I think people often forget the other costs (paints, basing, rules) when thinking about the initial purchase cost of the figures themselves.
Whether you buy cheap(er) plastic or metal, many of our other wargaming costs are less variable. So the incremental cost of metal over plastic is but a proportion of our overall gaming costs.
And then there's the preparation / painting / finishing time too - it takes just as long (longer, if the figures are less well defined?) to paint plastic as it does lead. Even the figure clean-up is no quicker (and arguably longer) with plastics. I do have a "bargain" force of WW2 plastic figures that I bought, cleaned up (painfully...), got to "know" through that process but then could not rustle up the motivation to paint. I may one day, or I may just buy the Peter Pig equivalents which also - as Sean alludes to - offer a wider range in terms both of poses and figure types.
We're probably drifting off the original topic here, but there are my ten cents' worth.
Simon
I hear you, Simon
A few years back I challenged myself to double my 25mm orc horde. I bought 3 bumper sets of EM4 orcs in just 3 poses. A year later and bucket loads of brass rod, Milliput, scraps culled from other figures and lots of elastoplast - I have a second army of approx. 200 figures... I still reckon at a fraction of the cost of the equivalent plastics or metals. - but boy it was an epic ride I would not repeat!
That's a lot of work Neil, and your results look great.
I also painted up a few EM4 dwarves and orcs some years ago. But not nearly so many and I didn't do any converting. They were very good value and easy to do a basic paint job on.
Another reason I like Peter Pig in 15mm, though - such a variety of poses that I usually don't feel the need to convert stuff. Thus saving time, money and cut fingers :)
Simon
Amen to that!
Neil
The most I've done is do a few head swaps. It's amazing the difference a new head makes.
I've even gone so far as to put a few ECW heads on ACW figures for even more variety.