RFCM

As we are chatting about playing some HI.
The next thing we need to  remember :-*

May I ask members here to  put up some or one sample navy so that players have some ideas.
This will allow players who have not played before or do not own a set of rules, to have some instant choices.

Words.
Casemate= he ship consists of a big rectangular armoured box within which the guns lie.
Monitor= The guns are in an armoured turret.
Tin clad= A wooden ship with some rubbish Timber or cotton bale protection has been added.
Fort = a collection of guns within a dirt or stone defence  rectangle. It cannot move (unless it is magic fort  = sorry I meant it to be over there , having seen your fleet dispositions)
Tender= small wooden ship that hangs around an ironclad to help out.

Here are two from the rulebook

CSS Virginia (2145) big casemate
CSS Albermarle ( 920) small casemate
CSS General Bragg (685) wooden
CSS Governor Moore (883) tin clad
CSS General Sumter  454
CSS Planter( 371) Wooden
Medium fort (550) All navies must have a fort.
6008.
Deduct 1 hit point from something wooden = -6
6002  TOTAL  Close enough.


USS passaic (1300) monitor
USS Miami (896) wooden
USS Fuschia (344) tender
USS Blackhawk (902) big wooden
USS Signal (630) wooden
USS Cairo (1330) casemate
Medium fort (550)
Total 5952

The compulsory 6 ships and fort are for game balance and playability.

More commercial translation=In the HI collectible universe there are 6 factions per side in your warband. Each faction raft has an awesome collectible (including rare cards)  stats card. ::)


martin :)

I only need to collect a few more of the special ships with 'rare' cards and my geek credentials will be complete. I told my 12 year old daughter She seemed to think it 'not cool' and 'lame'. I think in kids language that means it's good, right?

Yes Sean it's bad.


martin :)

Martin, your Confederate fleet only has 5 ships.
John

Good spot John.
Anything past 4 is just "many'? 
I have corrected it now.


martin :-[

Could I suggest you swap CSS Planter for CSS Drewery as this would act as a Tender for Virginia? Which was mainly CSS Teaser but the Drewery is close enough ! As the CSS Planter is classed more as a wooden Gunboat. One of the good thing about PP ships, Martin put out these smaller ships that are very "Universal" and can be used to represent a lot of "smaller" vessels without havin to break the bank in buying them; they can represent both sides without to much fuss !
USS Signal is a Tin Clad as well.
General Bragg can be classed as a Tinclad (cottonclad)with the Cotton Bales and some "Armour" stuffed into some parts of the ship ? This ship can be used by the Union in later battles as well, as she was Captured.
Miles

Thanks Miles.
Can you add some sample navies so that  folk have some idea choices.
If you want to make modified versions of my suggestion then that is fine too.

martin :)

I'll dig my book out and put up a couple of fleets too later today.

Is this spreadsheet/fleet calculator any use?

It only has the ships I have and could be tarted up!

Certainly Graham.
Jolly useful.

Sean, thanks  that is exactly what is needed.
I will get another one done tonight.


martin :)

Rebel Ironclad Navy of the river

CSS Selma.  Tinclad  864
CSS Gen Sumter.  Wooden   454
CSS Arkansas. Ironclad  1450
CSS Nashville.  Ironclad 1095
CSS Planter. Wooden 371
CSS Tucaloosa  Ironclad 1240
Medium fort 550
TOTAL  6024


martin :)

Union Fleet
4 of  Sassacus . Wooden= 892 x 4= (i.e. Agawam, Eutaw, Chicopee,Sassacus)
USS Canonicus  Monitor  = 1550
USS Signal. Wooden  630
Small fort 300
Total = 6048

Note. Any small differences from 6000 in these navies can be regulated by reducing hit points.


martin :)

Bone breakers
Confederates

CSS Manassas Ironclad   870
CSS Tennessee Ironclad  1360
CSS Palmetto state Ironclad. 1415
CSS Drewry Wood.  434
CSS Albermarle  Ironclad. 920
CSS Drewry Wood.  434
Medium fort  550

Total 5983 points




martin :)

Martin,

shouldn't these fleets include a fort within the 6,000pts?

A Union and a Confederate fleet for the adventurous!

Union

Large Fort 1000
USS Casco 1250
USS Cannonicus 1550
USS Monitor 1345
Chattanooga 282
General Sedgewick 404
Mortar Schooner 170

3 turreted 'Monitor' class ships, 2 wooden ships and a mortar schooner! This actually comes in at 6,001 points but I won't tell if you don't.

Confederate

Small Fort 280
Tennessee 1360
Arkansas 1450
Colonel Lovell 867
Selma 864
Patrick Henry 908
AD Vance 204

This leaves 67 points left over, but gives the Rebel player a heck of a lot of guns which they often lack. You may be able to spend the points more efficiently, but I was aiming for maximum gunnage  :)

Whoops. Better go back..  Oh dear!

martin :)

I have re written my lists. They should work now ( I hope)


martin :)

I will do. Just been painting up some of my Confederate Ironclads that I started last as well as this week. Also some I ve started this week.
Sean I can give you some very good ships that are the actual ships, except AD Vance.
Miles

(https://i.postimg.cc/B8GqLWpp/247-CB9-EB-3-DE6-497-E-94-BC-A9721-FA4-DF58.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8GqLWpp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RNNC2Lq7/3-F8209-DB-84-C9-49-EE-9708-21513-BA2-A44-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNNC2Lq7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0Y5xSSD/6-E886-B25-262-F-484-A-8-D81-5-A7551-E03371.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0Y5xSSD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bZnywYxd/F669-E1-D1-8-B8-F-4-BAA-9-BBD-13-CB63-E2-B49-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZnywYxd)

They look great, Miles - lots of depth and character. Thanks for sharing the different stages.

Simon

These fleets are an excellent help, thanks chaps.

I see you have include a mortar schooner and the AD Vance for new players to command Sean?


martin :)

Yes, though I'd  only trust them with one or the other. I'll  even offer to move the ship for them. Maybe even roll the dice. And if they failed to take my advice, I'd shun them and suggest they take up fishing.

That is all good practice Sean.
Commended.


martin :)

Here is my First Union fleet, with their wooden boats.
USS Lexington. 568.  Wooden Gunboat
USS Tyler.         810   Wooden Gunboat
USS Conestoga  640.  Wooden Gunboat
USS Avenger.     687.  Wooden Ram
USS Benton.      1560 Casement Ironclad
USS Ozark.        1440 River Monitor
SmallFort 280
5985

Miles

Or another one with small variables.
USS Lexington.  568 wooden Gunboat
USS Tyler.         810 Wooden Gunboat
USS Conestoga. 640 Wooden Gunboat
USS Switzerland 654 Wooden Ram
USS Louisville. 1500 Casement
USS Essex.      1285 Casement
Medium Fort 550
6007

Miles

They both look excellent Miles.
I will compile all the sample navies into one  list and put it here


martin :)

I will do a couple more  for the Confederates and also a couple more for the Union.
Miles

These have taken some time to be done, Xmas, having a cold, and getting the models done.
The first of a few Confederate lists. Hopefully I ve done them so the main ships would have sailed either together or at least in the same waters ? As it can be sketchy wether some of the boats/ships were properly built, used were fully functional etc etc.
List one Late Mobile bay.
CSS Tennessee   1360 Ironclad
CSS Morgan.      1053 wooden Gunboat
CSS Gaines.        858. Wooden Gunboat
CSS Selma.        960. Tinclad Gunboat
Governor Moore. 883 Cottonclad Ram
CSS Isondiga.     314 Small Gunboat
Medium Fort.       550
Total:  5978

Miles

List 2:
CSS Richmond and the rest of the class can be difficult to point up, as there are several different Ton weights for this class. For this one I've gone with 1200 Tons.
James River.
CSS Richmond.       1405. Ironclad
CSS Fredericksburg 1540. Ironclad
CSS Texas.             1390. Ironclad
CSS Drewry.           434 small Gunboat
CSS Teaser.            318 small Gunboat
CSS Hampton.        379 small Gunboat
Medium Fort.          550
Total: 6016

Miles

List three.
Earlier Mobile Bay Area.
CSS Baltic.       1115. Ironclad
CSS Nashville.  1655. Ironclad
CSS Florida.      666 wooden Gunboat "Selma as PP makes up before she was beefed up" !
CSS Manassas.  690. Ironclad Ram
CSS Planter.      391. small gunboat/Ram
CSS Queen of the West 452 small gunboat/Ram
Large Fort.       1000
Total: 5969

Miles

List Four.
North Carolina.
CSS Albemarle.     1020. Ironclad
CSS Neuse.           1045. Ironclad
CSS North Carolina 1145. Ironclad
CSS Raleigh.          1395. Ironclad
CSS Colonel Lovell. 726. Cottonclad gunboat/Ram
CSS planter.           391. Gunboat/Ram
Small Fort.             280
Total: 6002

Miles

List five:
South Carolina.
CSS Chicora.     1440. Ironclad
CSS Charleston. 1250. Ironclad
CSS Columbia.   1760. Ironclad
CSS Drewry.      434. Small gunboat
CSS Planter.       391. Small Gunboat
CSS Fanny.        318. Small gunboat
Small Fort          280
Total: 5873

Miles

The final Confederate list, a slight mix and match.
List six.
Mississippi area.
CSS Atlanta.    1640. Ironclad
CSS Georgia.   1580. Ironclad
CSS Arkansas. 1530. Ironclad
CSS Teaser.      318 small gunboat
CSS Fanny.      294. Small gunboat
CSS Lady Davis 324. Small gunboat
Small Fort.        280
Total: 5966

Miles

Thanks for doing this, Miles.

Maybe in due course you could publish (in The Mill?) the detailed stats for each?

Simon

Yes I ve got to do a few articles.
Stats for the various ships would be a good idea. Especially with the addition on the basic tonnage, etc.
As I said with the CSS Richmond I ve got 3 stat sheets all with different basic tonnage. So the hit points can vary from 23 up to 31 ? With the example I gave with 27. All makes a difference with the basic costs of these ships.
Makes it very hard work to be consistent sometimes!
Miles

Here are some slightly more High Tech Union Navies.
East and west, plus a Mississippi based Peter Pig fleet.
Fleet one: James River
USS Casco         1090. Ironclad  (casco class monitor one with turret one without)
USS Tunxis.       1275. Ironclad
USS Winnebago.1870. Ironclad. (Milwaukee class river Monitor)
USS Aroostook.  630. wooden Gunboat
USS Marblehead 555. Wooden gunboat
(2 x 90 day gunboats)
USS Teaser.        318 small gunboat
Small fort.          280
Total: 6018
Miles

Mississippi River:
Fleet Two:
USS Ozark.     1460. Ironclad
USS Osage.    1195. Ironclad
USS Louisville.1500. Ironclad. (City class)
USS Signal.      510. Tinclad
USS Argosy.     515. Tinclad
USS Planter.     391 small gunboat
Small fort.       280
Total: 5851

Miles

Mississippi fleet:
Peter Pig based models.
Fleet Three:
USS Ozark.      1460. Ironclad.
USS Cairo.       1500. Ironclad.
USS Blackhawk. 842. Tinclad.
USS Argosy.       515. Tinclad
USS Signal.        510. Tinclad.
USS Tyler.          810. Wooden Gunboat
Small Fort.         280
Total: 5917

Miles

Hopefully everyone like these. They are a mixture of Peter Pig, 3D printed, and other sources.
I tried to use as many of the ships I've got as possible. A lot of the smaller ones, I ve given the "named" based boats to try and keep it consistent. You can use a lot of other names for the smaller boats. Also tried to put them into their related Theatres of operation.
Miles

Thanks Miles for the Union fleets but you haven't listed any forts

Stewart

Yes that's mainly for this coming Saturday, as the Union fleets don't need forts. But I will readjust them accordingly. I will probably put in a small fort and add a Teaser or Tulip type boat for about 318-349 instead ? Replace one of the 500-600 odd points ships.
Miles

Thanks Miles, I'm sure Martin will clarify but I think the fleets are made up according to the normal rules,
Ie, 6000 points and Union lose the fort, Confederate lose a ship.

Stewart

Agreed Stewart

I will put that in the long game rules.
There will be some compensation against Confederate fleets which only bought a small fort.


martin :)

I have now corrected the 3 Union fleets above.
Miles

Thanks guys, these are really helpful for a newbie..

I have yet to find it, but if it is listed elsewhere i apologise.

I would love to have the data for all the ships for sale listed on Peter Pigs web site. if anyone has any please let me know

I do have a copy of all ships listed in the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Navies in the War of Rebellion,  although some data is real basic  ie:  side wheel steamer 410 tons

Thanks

No worries T.

I think they are all in the HI rulebook.
If you do not have the  HI rule book then  you are really stuck with no way out.
Any PP ships that are not in it just let me know and I will sort it out.

martin :)

of course I have and love the rulebook, , in fact i have only recently ordered the reb sample fleet off page 11 ( except Albermarle  which I have )

I know a lot of models can pass as several named vessels..

thanks for the reply Martin I will get back to you :-D

The ship in question is the george page , captured by the rebs,  was a side wheel steamer  410 tons, 2 guns ( unknown type ). i have a resin model of that brought a while ago from a firm no longer trading

any help on stats

I would assume shes wooden with light guns ( forward maybe ) shallow  and maybe fast is so working on the points ...
410 ton  divide by 80 then plus 12 = 17.1  hit point  17
point cost
wooden 6 x 17 =102
1 fore 1 aft light pivot guns = + 60    =102 + 60 = 162
shallow + 60    ..   = 162 + 60 =222     

I could maybe add fast ship, of +120  giving total point of 222 + 120 = 342

I would welcome any thoughts

thanks in advance

Brian

I am sure many of you already know this but any newbie like myself may find it of use

free to download at the library of congress

https://www.loc.gov/item/06035188/


Brian

Brian that sounds all good.
Because players pay points for each aspect then most ships should seem fair.
The problems will arise where players want a ship such as a ram and it was not.

There were not may ships that defy some basic principles.

Big ships tended to mount bigger and better guns.
Small wooden ships tended to have lighter guns.
Ram ships were designed as such.
Rifled guns had no greater effect than smoothbores.


If players build plausible and authentic fleets they will probably have good games.
Players who try to make "super ships" will spoil games.

martin :)

totally agree, as you can see the George Page is not a super ship  :-D .  and i think i'll lose the Fast 120 points,  as this will make a good ship for topping up points when im at 5800   or so

rebs 

large fort
Virginia
macon
Gen Bragg
Drewry
little rebel 
sumter

Game went really well Virginia held water between islands, and i kept other ships at end of table, looked impassable,  until Crit hit on Virginia =  Dean rolled double 6..........  

couple of weeks later i tried playing yankee

large fort
Hartford
Miami
Com Morris
Osage
Signal
Gen Sedgwick

again islands/ sand bars  upstream
large fort held well  game ended in points draw

seems a large fort upstream along with islands / sand bars makes it really tough to crack...
to be honest thats why i have ordered a med fort ( and upgraded ships of course ) to see  how it effects the outcome