There will be a CWB battle day at Entoyment near Poole.
i have booked 3 table so up to 12 places,
2 a side , 3 games
normal sequence, game am, lunch, game pm,
i have two armies and a complete table set up (may + scenery)
who is available for a game or two?
Stewart
Please do count me in. Union Army plus full table set-up. Can do 600 -900 point armies.
Are you going to set a year date ? 1862 ? As it is 2022 ? So advantage Confederacy !
Miles
On holiday.
John
Quote from: Smiley Miley 66 on March 07, 2022, 04:28:41 PM
Please do count me in. Union Army plus full table set-up. Can do 600 -900 point armies.
Are you going to set a year date ? 1862 ? As it is 2022 ? So advantage Confederacy !
Miles
Looking forward to this one Stewart.
1862 ?
Then that stops us bringing all sorts of Armies ?
Muskets will still in there no doubt.
Miles
Stewart,
Happy with the plan for the CWB day.
I will be there and bringing my Union Army.
No problem with whatever date is chosen (let the Rebs win!)
I can bring a table and set up if needed.
Mike
Stewart,
I'll be there but only have 6mm ACW figures. So if I can sit in with someone please?
Richard
Stewart.
I'll be there. Hopefully a bit more focused than yesterday. Have enough troops for both sides and happy for them to be used. Can put together a table as well.
Derek
THE PLAN
please use early war army lists 1861, east or west your choice
confirm you can attend and which army you are bringing (if any) or which side Blue or Grey you prefer
3 tables booked ,so
Myself, Derek and Miles please bring complete table set up (mat, roads and scenery)
Stewart
Sounds good. I will be bringing an Army of both colours together with Army lists so we can just bash on.
Just finished flagging up the Union force and just need to give it a good spraying then its done.
Derek
Stewart,
I will be bringing a Western 1861 Union Army for the Standard game.
No scenery as that is now catered for.
What time do you want to leave Dorchester (with me in your car as well, hopefully) ?
Mike
Ok no problem.
Miles
Are any rule revisions going to be used on the meet or rules as they are printed?
Derek
Quote from: Moggy on June 22, 2022, 02:01:14 PM
Are any rule revisions going to be used on the meet or rules as they are printed?
Derek
I thought the normal plan was that each table used whatever the respective players could remember / interpret from the ACW rules, filling in any perceived gaps with elements from other RFCM rule sets? ;D
Simon
Was a reference to the Re: CWB battle on 2nd June thread in case anyone had taken that on board.
Derek
Hi all
the plan is to use the rules as written ,
But as long as everyone plays nicely and no fighting
We will have a good day
Stewart
Well I have my 1861 (161 years ago) army at the ready as it was pointed up last year (160 anniversary) so my Scots will be out in force with some grey trousers for the Irish as well.
Long live Lincoln, until 1865 at least ! Live live the Union.
Miles
Dry good Miles,
We better not charge the year
Stewart
Do not forget the update to the rules that we now use
Updates to CWB Rules
From the PP rules site 2019.
Page 113 Victory Points
We have decided to update the victory point numbers a little. December 2019.
This is the first update in 12 years.
Changes
Defender compensations for being the defender
5D6 becomes 2D6 (E= 18 becomes E=7)
8D6 becomes 3D6 (E=28 becomes E=11)
12D6 becomes 4D6 (E=42 becomes E= 14)
This is aimed at stopping players deliberately being the defender and claiming a victory due to having lots of compensation D6.
The victory D6 are rolled as one complete handful.
This should even out the scores.
I suggest a re-roll is allowed. But it is group decision on the day.
martin :)
Martin,
A quick question on the rules if I may...
Artillery moving limbered - move as Foot or Cavalry?
Mike
hi Mike
page 80
3" up to 5 lots
Stewart
Got it!
Thanks Stewart
Mike
Will there be period music played?
Of course Sean, Martin will probably have the band with him. Need to get the titles to him in time for them to practice!!
I will be there with my ever enthusiastic Southern gentlemen. I can bring terrain if you would like me to. Not worried about the victory points as I don't defend unless I'm forced to and then I end up attacking. The only way is forward. Or as Smiley found out, side ways ;) Regards Colin
roll call please of attendees
STEWART - will have Reb and Union forces as required
MILES - Union
BIG MIKE - Union
DEREK - Union
COLIN - Reb
WEYMOUTH MIKE - Reb
RICHARD
Any one else up for a fight?
Stewart
I will also have both forces available.
Derek
You left out Martin ?
Miles
Sadly martin will not be there for CWB :(
I am at the conference of wargamers in Shrivenham (?)
My thoughts will be with you.
Shall I print some battle sheets off and pass them to Stewart???
martin :)
Quote from: martin goddard on July 01, 2022, 04:54:06 PM
I am at the conference of wargamers in Shrivenham (?)
Holy COW, Martin - that is hard core!
Simon
Martin was a bit put out he couldn't use his chariots and elephants
so he having a holiday
Stewart
Oh I was going to bring USS Tyler to the table followed by USS Benton ?
I am playing HI this week if you hadn't guessed!
So a week of ACW.
Miles
Conference of wargamers does sound a bit grand.
It is however just a "normal shooting party". :)
martin
I hope you bag a few grouse then, but do please go easy on the Port wine - not good for the gout ;D
Simon
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hrm7dWL6/IMG-0017.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hrm7dWL6)
COW Hard core or what! This picture shows the gathering about to re-enact Pickets charge. I can't quite remember the details or even the year but I think the paper plates are significant and were thrown Frisbee style. Gosh everyone looks so young. The late Paddy Griffith may have organised this session.
Gosh that looks 1986???
martin :)
We will be having Karim and his son on holiday from Belgium joining us in the afternoon for a look at the game and hopefully join in for a few hours.
Stewart
Congratulations in making this another international event, Stewart!
Simon
I propose the following
1st Round
MILES (Union)+ RICHARD V DEREK (Reb)
BIG MIKE (Union) V. COLIN (Reb)
STEWART (Union). V MIKE B (Reb)
LUNCH
2nd Round
MILES (Union). V MIKE B (Reb)
BIG MIKE (Union)+ RICHARD V. DEREK (Reb)
STEWART (Union). V COLIN (Reb)
Tables and scenery provided by
MILES
BIG MIKE
STEWART
Union stay on their table, Rebel forces move as required
Hope everyone is happy with the plan?
Expect visitors in the afternoon and can join watch Stewart & Colin
Stewart
Looks very good.
I get to teach the newbies.
Gives me a good chance to go thru the rules.
Miles
Okay Dokay
I wont bring my union Army then or terrain. Less stuff to lug around :)
Derek
Stewart
Looks like a well ordered event.
See you at 8am.
Mike
Thanks to all came and played today,
Hope you all enjoyed it after blowing the cobwebs away
Stewart
How many different versions of the rules do you reckon you played between you? ;D
Simon
Miles for got his toys so we played double on two games.
So about 6 different interpretations
I only took one picture of each game and a special one to show Martin we used trees and templates correctly
(https://i.postimg.cc/LqFnTrB6/3-E7-DE6-C0-FE76-4-AF7-8347-07-E71-CB4-B916.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LqFnTrB6)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KK74sJJ7/47095-AE8-AEB3-4244-BF0-C-5-A87-C173-E4-ED.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KK74sJJ7)
(https://i.postimg.cc/gXYr98TC/532-BADE7-1-EA7-4-DFA-81-BE-5-E8-CF73-CCBEC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gXYr98TC)
An excellent event and thanks to Colin and Derek for a very enjoyable game.
Their Southerners performed well and won convincingly. My Raw Union Cavalry captured the most valuable objective and held out almost to the end but some appalling leadership let them down.
In our game the rules seemed to be generally in line with the book, but as Colin was heard to say,
" it's a good idea to read the rules before a game."
There were a couple of items that cropped up.
My dismounted Cavalry were defending the scenery edge of the farm (objective) but they were shot at and eventually assaulted by Rebs coming through the farm template. It seems wrong that they could claim the scenery edge pluses for falter test and fighting etc. Perhaps this is more to do with common sense but the rules didn't make it clear.
Line of sight across a hill was taken as stopped by a centre line - reverse slope and all that ( The Duke of Wellington was invoked). This seemed right during the game but on re-reading the rules, line of sight is stopped at the far edge of the hill.
The use of the optional rules cropped up and these should be agreed by players at the game start.
CWB is a good rule set and perhaps the 900 point game would work for one of our Entoyment days in the future.
Thanks to Stewart and everyone else involved today.
Mike
Thanks for sharing the feedback and pictures, chaps.
Is the plastic tray beneath the tea mugs a new innovation? Look like a good idea to reduce risk of flooding the table.
Simon
That actually is a good idea, the plastic tray to put your cup in. One I will introduce in my cabin as well as Entoyment. Thanks Derek.
A good day I put everything in the car except my two boxes of Troops. Must admit didn't fancy doing another 30 mile round trip to go and get them !
As Colin said a quick eyes on the rules before the day is a good idea if you can.
But that was my problem on Saturday, having played the rules Tuesday. I then put my soldiers out of sight to get Hammer iron out for Wednesday. Got my scenery etc together than totally forgot about my troops ! Good intentions etc.
Anyway our Southerns tried to do battle against the Union, but afterwards found out that there was a. 100 point difference as Stewart had opted for a "Western force" as "Weymouth"Mike wasn't advised by Stewart that the +30 in the rules meant you got an extra 30 points to play with !
Must admit I kept looking and saying that our army looked a bit small !
Then bad luck struck again losing 2 units completely with 4 5/6 on the late and loses so off they went and basically never turned up. So unfortunately with the force being 100 points light away against the opponents plus the 2 missing brigades it never really got any better than that. Try as we might it became a fighting battle to just try and hold on. But we managed to keep the Union victory to only 48 points and not a full blown rout.
The one that kept cropping up at what point does a Linear not become a wall or sunken road if between the main body of fighting men? As troops walking down a road with a "wall" down one side and troops firing at an angle firing effectively over "2 walls" can decimate that unit when they can only see the first base at the beginning of a wall ?
If that had been a wood or building there ? There would be no LOS or question about being able to fire at them ? Except again the first unit coming out at the top of the road ?
So is it worth then havin a wall/fence/sunken road/Linear ? At all ? Any other game system the LOS would be obstructed in some way and at least become a Partial and the troops would have been claiming some form of cover ?
Martin always says these roads were only tracks, hence why you can't have everything on the road passing each other etc, but apparently my Brigade was walking down a 3 lane freeway? So the whole Brigade could be seen by all and sundry, So which is it ? If I had know that I would have had them go up the road 3 bases wide not treat it like a narrow track that I was led to believe?
Cavalry v Guns twice in 2 days the guns have actually halted the charge at the falter test ? so it is actually worth looking at "to stand", it's not to say it will happen everytime ?
But other than that I t was a good game.
I find the whole falter test thing seems a bit "off" the number of times a vastly superior (in number if nothing else) charge ends because of a poor dice roll is disappoining. I feel that unsupported guns being charged from cavalry would, whenever possible, would try to escape unless it was a short range charge when they would have no chance to run.
Like Miles the linear fence rules do need some clarification as do the crestlines of hills. Maybe we ned to have some lines drawn on our hills to show crests!
Apart from that a good time was had by all.
Many thanks to Stewart for putting it on. Yes, despite shaking fingers managed to escape the shop without looking/buying anything more.
Derek
Morning Miles,
I had anEastern force with +70 , Mike also had eastern force with +30, so difference of 40 points not 100 and we both had musket armed units.
You advised Mike to reduce his attack/defence dice which resulted in a large difference so on the defenders losses you lost a lot but you did risk losing bases instead of taking them off and losing 3 bases from 6 on a number of units wasn't good.
But we did have a good game with poor Generals it was hard to get more then. Two units doing anything worthwhile
each turn .
Next ECW if you can make it
Stewart
The crestline issue has always been troops on a hill template can be seen.
Regarding cover from linears...
Remember that units are brigades, so in effect 3 or 4 regiments, representing 1500-2000 men. Though they manoeuvre as a single block of troops, this is abstracted from the reality of what would actually be 3 or 4 independent units moving together.
Cover rules in games that abstract to this level are tr8cky. What does a wall or a fence on the table represent? A single piece of wall? Could 1500 men recieve cover from it?
I think for me, due to the abstraction, a general rule of a unit needs to be 50% behind cover to gain a bonus might make sense. But then, the half pocking out and nit covered by a fence actually represents around 750 men, more than the average regiment, without cover.
Locally we use the following amendment.
All cover saves are:
Long range in cover: 2+
Long range in the open/short range in cover: 3+
Short range in the open: 4+
If ⅔ of a unit are in cover they gain the cover bonus, always judged in favour of the defending player.
It takes a group of friendly players to work these things out. And if a group feel like they want to change something, then do it. Its a tradition going back to Featherstone where you use house rules to fit how you play.
Of course the issue is when we all come together, and play a game once or twice a year. So maybe CWB could have a page of accepted errata and clarifications until such time as it is rewritten.
Careful, Sean - don't get Martin started on any more rewrites quite yet! :D
Simon
The rules do say that if half the unit is in cover then it is treated as in cover.
I agree that a large body of men do not really "hide" behind a fence so I think I would then to say they could be called behind it if front centre rank (shooter) to nearest facing centre rank (if in doubt use largest frontage available) runs across it. That then avoids the odd bases peeking out.
Derek
I did advise him but you had already decided the points etc.
You told us you had a Western force not a Eastern force ? So which was it.
When I asked Mike about the plus 30 points he said you said nothing about it ? He wasn't aware of it ?
So what I put down yesterday was what I was told. Or did you all fib ?
So going by what I was told , the force we had was 100 points different to yours ?
Now you have changed your story then it's 70 points different? Or was Mike lying too ?
Yes I know we had muskets on the table. That's was across both forces.
Where did the light gun come from ? There must be light guns in there ?
Guns 3-5 smoothbores and 0-4 light guns ? If the Ill advised points putting an extra cavalry base then another smoothbore could have been paid for and used ?
But anyway it was an enjoyable game. A good day and thanks for organising it, in the fact we need to play these rules more often than we do ? As these are one of the best sets of rules made, even though they are quite old. We need to be playing this at least 2-3 times a year ?
But the force in front of me looked light ? Before any thing was taken away. The 2 bad throws myself and Mike made with the 4D6 made the situation worse. Then you wanted us to sacrifice even more of the force with the lates and losses ? We had no more troops we could loose, but road entrances to bring on the reinforcements we did have?
I think next time a bit of time going thru the rules and set up with a newbie would have been advised, then we could have sorted any miscalculations out ?
You said to me before there's the book make a force ? If you don't know the rules, how the forces should be etc, you have no chance of setting up a correct force. It doesn't matter how much you have played other PP Games if you have never played that rule set you are at a disadvantage? One game with you and Martin the other day can't being warrant knowledge of the game, and me not knowing what points were used didn't help me out either ?
So I think we must have a quick run down of a game setup etc, especially if newbies are involved, also stops us all running on some of the "last" play tested rules that those of us have been involved in lately and any other sets just because that's what we have been playing?
So its not meant to be a dig, be just we should be more mindful of those playing and trying to promote the rules ?
Also goes to show we do need to do these Battledays more often ?
A lesson for all of us should be learned ?
Must admit my morning started off bad from the time I got up.... To getting to Entoyment.
But what I reported on here was what I was told or lead to believe?
Miles
Quote from: Moggy on July 10, 2022, 01:35:09 PM
The rules do say that if half the unit is in cover then it is treated as in cover.
I agree that a large body of men do not really "hide" behind a fence so I think I would then to say they could be called behind it if front centre rank (shooter) to nearest facing centre rank (if in doubt use largest frontage available) runs across it. That then avoids the odd bases peeking out.
Derek
Good idea.
This game doesn't need a rewrite, more of a modern approach and tidy up ? They would be re rolls allowed as standard in places, maybe a slightly better X reference, but this was one of the first to have a lot of things properly X reference from the play sheet.
It's just little odds and bits need playing with ? Not too sure if PP have nearly gone thru all of the copies ?
It's still a game we should play a lot more often !
Miles
Miles
Ive always said its my favourite game. I honestly think its the best ACW game of its kind. It gives a great game in a couple of hours with little fuss.
I suspect it falls victim of those of us who play a lot of RFCM games in that we misremember rules from elsewhere. As said before and by you, one or two clarifications would do me fine.
Maybe just an errata sheet so its in writing.
Derek
Agreed.
I'd be happy to collate peoples issues and produce a single sheet of combined thoughts. Anything on it would be unofficial, but possibly considered for future battle days. All with Martins approval of course.
Ill start q new thread.