Having said I would probably not indulge, does anyone know of any less well known campaigns of the period where I might find a use for the cracking WoTR figures Martin is releasing? Sad to say I find the mainstream WoTR does not really appeal to me, though the armour and tech does. I'm looking for a sideshow or small conflict which took place during the period 1455-1487.
So far the only thing I've come across is the French occupation of Jersey and Mont Orguiel (Gorey Castle) in the 1460s. https://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/Comte_Maulevrier
Several clashes took place between Philippe de Carteret, Seigneur of St Ouen and Jean de Carbonnel, Sire de Surdeval who led the sizeable French occupation force on behalf of Pierre de Brezé, Comte de Maulevrier. The Channel Islands had been given to de Brezé by Margaret of Anjou for aiding the Lancastrian cause.
The Channel Islands were at this time under control of the only female Warden of the Isles, Lady Anne de Beauchamp (potentially an opportunity to use the Margaret of Anjou character figure?), with military control in the hands of a sub-warden, Jean Nanfan.
On the face of it this sounds like an interesting mini campaign and an opportunity to field unusual heraldry (if I can untangle who did what to whom)... perhaps there are Channel Islanders out there who have already gamed the period. I recall Jersey Wargamers attending Salute (?) years ago with an awesome 25mm peninsula castle...
Within the WotR, but certainly not mainstream, is the campaign that culminated in Stoke in 1487. Here substantial numbers of Irish and early landsknechts made up a sustantial part of the Yorkist rebel army against Henry VII. Also an opportunity for lots of early Tudor heraldry as well.
Irish and Landsknechts on the same side. That must have made for some interesting camp fire antics!
Thanks Andy!
Could look at the Austrian–Hungarian War (1477–1488). Its the right period and probably had similar types of troops. or the Utrecht war of 1481–83. Ain't google wonderful !
Derek
During the WotR there were numerous personal vendettas. Most are either not recorded or only scantily so. Often disputes over ownership of land or properties. Probably the best known and recorded is Nibley Green. I know of another that took place at Sturminster Newton in Dorset but I have no details.
Alternatively there is the Swiss/Burgundian War or the campaigns of Friedrich the Victorious. The Lance and Longbow Society has booklets on both of these. If you check out their website you can find out more. Also if you click on the "Index to the Hobilar" button it lists all articles from Hobilar 1 to 100. You might get some inspiration from there.
( I should declare an interest at this point as I am chair of the Society).
John
Thanks for that John,
It is trying to unearth that sort of localised thing that got me interested. A relatively self contained squabble with a handful of heraldic devices apiece would suit me. I can give you chapter and verse on who did what during the Anglo-Norman rebellion in the Fens during the Anarchy and even have a decent stab at representing the factions on the tabletop, but this later period seems harder to pin down details for...
Another person to investigate, Neil, is John Paston. He seems to have been a very litiginous chap who wasn't frightened of physical confrontation. A good place to start would be the book "The Pastor Letters". That might lead you to a few punch ups.
John
I'm kinda loving the whole 'locals trying to kick the French out of Jersey' vibe... if I can pin down some of the heraldry. I can place the belligerent leaders and assume the banners they were flying under, but apart from a ref to the western half of Jersey resisting the French occupation the other players are less well documented. The 12 parochial coats of arms date from the 1920s.
I was one of those in the Jersey Wargames Club at the time (1989!) I'll see what info I can dig up but in the meantime for those with an interest (and the resources) try reading "A Castle to Declare, Salute 89" in WI 25. (Yes, twenty five).
Derek
I remember seeing it at Salute. It was a very good display. Was it really 1989?
John
Afraid so. It was the Siege of Mont Orguiel by Betrand du Gascalin (spelling?) in 1989 when Salute was at Kensington Town Hall!
Derek
OMG, Derek, that was a blast from the past!
I recall you or your colleagues telling us how HM Customs attacked the diorama with skewers... and you all spending all night repairing the damage... If you have any info from way back when that would be awesome!
Neil
Re. customs - the more things change the more they stay the same.
Neil,
"Castle to Declare" spells out the trials and tribulations of getting a 6ft square polystyrene model from Jersey to London. Meanwhile, I'm digging in the archives to see what historical info may be of use.
Derek
If you want to use smaller forces and say rules like lion rampant or such, then there would be a lot of action and smaller engagements around any of the bigger campaigns. For example the Bamburgh campaign in 1462 - which has French, Scots and English of both sides involved.
You are only talking a couple of weeks to a month or two at maximum real time, but it would be good for a large variety of smaller games with all sorts of scenarios. Claiming key terrain, scouting, capturing or getting supplies or key people in/out, raids on camps and forays from the besieged etc. Oh and even that period has the trade mark option for changing sides being present and some big men were involved.
TBH I'm leaning towards using Lion Rampant but with slightly more units/figures since I have that to hand already...
Cool. The nice thing with Lion Rampant is the rules are simple and easy to modify for what you want. I have done much bigger game with that system by just either having command rerolls per side or multiple commanders on the same side controlling some troops. I have done more than triple the normal for with the Pike period version. There are War of the Roses troop list available somewhere on the web as well.
We also borrowed an idea from other rules and had a custom event set/table for a double 1 (a bad set of events) or double 6 (a good set) for some smaller scale engagement events if you like that idea. It allows for such things as rain and even minor treachery if you want. :)
I have played games with multi-based figs and that works fine or each mutli-figure base is the equivalent of 1 or 2 figs in the rules. Either way an extra marker or two is required but thats it.
I am going to be using them with my Italian Wars 28mm - not thrilled with unit sizes so using dice frames and a bit of jiggery pokery to get decent sized units with very simple rules. Also going to use the card deck from the Foundry Condottiore rules for a bit of flavour and to induce the unexpected in a solo game. Here is a Swiss block.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51884100877_89af1b2575.jpg)
They look great, Andy
encouraging ideas, mellis1644.
It is looking like I'll have some English longbowmen and archers, Guernsey and Jersey militia, a few retinues of local seigneurs and a few Compagnies D'Ordonnance....
Just augmented my spring recruitment drive with some mounted and more foot. Most of the Jèrriais are now assembled and a few of the English/Guernsey landing force. Now I'll have a handful of the French Compagnies D'Ordonnance to pit against them...
I'm thinking about the mix of mounted to foot for the Normandy Compagnies D'Ordonnance... seems to me they'd need a few Mounted MAA to overawe the populace and some lighter cavalry for patrols, scouting etc. but to garrison the castle and surrounding countryside effectively I'm figuring about a 3:1 infantry bias. 1 Mtd MAA: 1 Foot MAA: 2 Archers. It would also make sense to me to have some 'Franc Archers' as scouts etc.