Maybe all that is required is a PDF of errata and FAQ's, much like many other rules have. These could be made available free on line, and printed copies sent out with each purchase of the rule book. After 10 years of service, I think this is a good compromise. Not many rules last 10 years before a new edition comes. But in this instance, an official Peter Pig apporved errata would probably be sufficient - such as the last half base discussed elsewhere/
that certainly is an option. The question is whether there are physical copies of SB2012 ... if there isn't, its pretty dead to new players
You can still buy it as a hard copy and PDF.
I would appreciate a FAQ and errata. Great idea Sean.
I have about 10 sets of SB left. I am keeping those for shows. Although there might not be any more shows for PP which might change my tactic.
It is very rare indeed for any RFCM rule sets to have errata.
That is mainly thanks to the play testers.
I am not going to touch SB at the moment because I have plenty of other work to complete.
Maybe a square bashing day would be a good time to test out a new pre game system Simon?
martin :)
That's a shame. I really liked the pre game system.
John
The new one will still go well. I will probably make it electric?
Low omissions.
martin :)
And hands free, should cure everything.
I think some house ruling is OK. If you agree with your opponent, then removing units down to one base can be a thing. Similarly Ray's quick variant for the pre game can be used.
I'm currently writing a scenario for the Mill based on the second day of the Battle of Loos. I'm basing it on the book In the Shadow of Bois Hugo by Nigel Atter. I'm talking to him tomorrow night to chat about how to game the battle, specifically the 8th Lincoln who came out of the Battle with a somewhat tarnished reputation.
Personally I ve never found RFCM "Days to War" a chore to do ? They are part of the game systems ? So why is there so much fuss about doing a "Shortened" Version ??
To me is a way of gaining little Extras for my army that my points just can't buy ?
CWB is the Biggest and to me the best example of this, those that know me the Cavalry bit on "Day 9"is a very well fought over option ??? Get the right Dice ! It can change and shape a lot of games ?
Miles
I agree with you Miles, but a lot of players find it very challenging in terms of concept and time taken.
A notable one are the chaps who spent one evening doing the PBI pre-game and another for the actual game.
A fair few gamers quite reasonably for them (not me) just want to line up two equal sized armies and shoot it out until the time they have given for the game runs out.
Many gamers want to pick up a ruleset, take off the wrapping and get playing instantly. This is part of "instant gratification" which is a main feature of current society?
They will find all the RFCM games not what they are looking for.
I accept this and wish them luck with whatever else they choose from the tens of sets available.
martin :)
Miles,
The cavalry in the CWB game is one of my favourites too!
I enjoy the pregame sequences. They add narrative and are for me a part of the game, not something to rush through so that we can get our figures out. Although I know the piggy chase was designed to speed up pregame activity, I still very much enjoy the 15 days to war mechanic. I think it was first seen in AK47 Reloaded?
In my experience, having a pregame sequence ensures that no two games are the same. Players may develop a favoured terrain set up or favoured army to take, but the pregame 15 days to war or whatever can often upset your plans. A unit on your right flank that you have high hopes for suddenly turns out to be raw and out of ammo. Mmm. A re-think needed! A good general will adapt to these challenges. A poor general will be defeated before a dice is thrown.
I think the point is being missed here. It's not the fact that the pre game is too long or that it exists at all. The issue I have is that you have little decision in the final outcome. The pre game should be forging the narrative, not just random events
That's why I don't like Piggy Chases (sorry Martin). No Narrative.
Also on SB "days to battle" it took Derek and I about five minutes in total if that to complete, so not too long in my opinion. I suppose it would be long for those with analysis paralysis, but I try to avoid people like that.
John
There are tactics for success in the SB pre game.
Those tactics are when to hold over for a next day and when not too , bearing in mind the allotted number is "ripe".
This the outcomes are steerable. Moreso once a player knows what he is doing.
martin :)
The piggy chase still takes some players quite a while.
The piggy chase also presents some players with a big tactical challenge.
I find the piggy chase about right in that it allows the capable player to use it to his advantage whilst not forcing the slower player to be too confused as to what is happening.
So it does address the "slow thinker" problem quite well.
martin :)
Perhaps the Piggy Chase should be the "go to" alternative to the pre game system?
John
Quite possibly.
A "quick start" and "Full start" ?
A quick fix might be this:-
1. Do a piggy hase to 40
2. Winner must attack.
3. Each 5 or part thereof (e.g 7 = 2 outcomes) of difference matters. Each one is an outome.
4. This gives the winner rolls on the Outcome chart with +6. ie 2D6+6= scores 8 to 18. Avoiding all the bad things.
5. The loser rolls on the outcome chart with 2D6-2. Gives scores 0-10. Scores of 1,2 = no outcome. Might hit some bad things.
e.g. Winner gets to 40 and loser gets to 23. Difference =17 = 4 outcomes.
Each player will roll 4 times.
Winner must be attacker.
Winner rolls 7 = 13 on outcomes.
Winner rolls 9=15 on outcomes
Winner rolls 5=11 on outcomes.
Then defender also rolls 4 times
Loser rolls 7 =5 on outcomes
Loser rolls 4=2 on outcomes
Loser rolls 11=9 on outcomes
Loser rolls 3=1 on outcomes and is ignored
This would use piggy and existing outcomes both.
A quick but temporary solution to the pregame.
martin ???
Thanks Martin. Is this something of a record in terms of number of rulesets being given some kind of consideration all at once?
I count:
- FM
- Conquerors and Kings
- PBI 2020
- Square Bashing?
Simon
Go on Julian
All grist to the mill!
That having been said, I often do not know the answer and my best guess is wrong :-[
martin :)
I agree with Martin that you cannot expect to roll up and set up "like a game of chess" equal points and just bash it out. You do have to a attacker/defender and different amounts of troops on the board; otherwise you wouldn't attack. Not on a "Modern type" battlefield!
I still say the "CWB type" is my all time favourite, as you do have some control on how many dice you load where etc, and the type of army can change that load out as well.
The 15 days to war is steerable within reason. But an old thread that talked about how plans go array after first contact with the enemy come to mind ?
The new one that SCW and PBI 2020 I am not too keen on. There is no control on the possible outcome ? Luck.
The current PBI is good, the result table after, I have issues with if I win and choose to be a defender, you can feel like a loser ? But that is for another day and thread ?
Miles
Miles
The piggy chase for me is about when to risk another throw or when to stick. A bit like pontoon. The more dice you throw, the greater the odds of rolling a 6, but as we all know, you can have a run of 6's with each roll.
I tend to find increments of 12 about right, and once I'm within 10 of the end I'll just go for it. I have before now gone all the way through (pirates land raid) but its incredibly risky. I think that chase is only to 30 though.