Having had to handle all my 15mm figures over the last few days, I have noticed that some of them have suffered over the years.
Mostly XXXXXXX MXXXXXXXX, I am now scared to even touch one as they break at the ankles. I can assure you that all my stuff has been kept in the finest conditions available.
This must be a metal problem and maybe one for Martin as they are not his :)
So over to the boss:-
Terry
Oxidation perhaps?
Terry,
Ouch, that sounds heartbreaking.
Without being funny, what conditions (temperature, humidity, type of box...) have they been stored in?
Also, did you fully prime and/or varnish them? I've read various articles on the dreaded "lead rot" and there seem to be several theories around.
Simon
All my stuff has been under 50% humidity for ages. It is only one manufacture that has suffered. Even my older stuff has not been affected.
I am at a loss to work out why. All my figures have been in the same environment.
A bit gutted but C`est la vie.
All fully primed and varnished.
Anyone want to buy a cheap Han Chinese army?
Terry
Terry,
Good news that the damage is limited.
Could it perhaps "just" be some dodgy metal in that particular army?
Simon
@ Simon--That is my theory, It all seems to be the same manufacturer. So that raised a few alarm bells.
I have read a lot about lead rot and that's what i thought it was -a load of rot, until it happened to me. Fortunately it was only a few fantasy models from the 1970's. I think they were Real Partha figures. They were unpainted. I have never had a problem with painted figures, which I undercoat and varnish. My figures have been stored in relatively damp conditions for many years so I don't think damp is the problem per se. It could be a catalyst, perhaps, if the alloy is poor. I suspect it might be impurities in the alloy that is the real problem. Perhaps we should demand that figure manufacturers disclose the contents of their alloy so we can decide which figures will stand the test of time.
John
That's a very interesting idea John. A material quality badge of some kind? I know Martin chooses his alloys and their specific uses carefully. If only others were as thorough it would have saved me selling off unpainted stuff I just couldn't be bothered with in the past...
Simon
Flames of war figures are a typical one for snapping at the ankles. A load of the 8th Army figures Colin gave my, had that same problem. A load of "ACW" figures I bought years ago the same thing, from some manufacturer off the old gaming circuit. I assume it's a combination of the figure posses and crap, cheap metal that some of these companies have used over the years, attempting to cut costs etc.
Miles
Any chance of a couple more letters? I'm not the greatest at word puzzles and that one has me stumped.
Andy
@ andy
Cxxxxxx Mxxxxxxxxx
Reason I have not named is that they have been taken over by somebody else who seems to have rectified the problem.
Terry
Thanks. Yes they have.
Andy
That's good to know it's fixed. I remember admiring figures from that manufacturer when I was into Essex Ancients. CM's figures seemed very slender and elegant.
When I bought a bunch more recently to mix in with Dark Ages figures from other manufacturers, I found them a little skimpy. How tastes (maybe just my fickle ones) change!
Simon
Similar experience in the 90s with the CM 10mm FPW figures. I had originally started my collection using Wargames South figures, but when CM's came out their detail was exquisite and I switched to collecting them, but their "skimpiness" resulted in heads and outstretched arms coming off. The project was abandoned and sold off. I switched to Pendraken in the early 2000s, and have now added to these with the original WS figures, now supplied by Red Eagle. They may be a little cruder than the old CM figures but they are so much more sturdy, and in my view have a charm all their own.
Completely agree. I sold off my FPW and replaced them but I do still have an Classical Indian army minus a few bows - definitely try not to touch them.
CM?
martin ???
Need-to-know basis, Martin ;)
Chariot Miniatures, now being sold (seemingly with rather better metal) by Magister Militum.
Simon
Thanks Simon
The number of letters matched Citadel.
martin :)
Well maybe we were all talking about different manufacturers?
At least I know what I was talking about (which was bound to happen one day... ;D).
Simon
Old Citadel and Rafm seemed to be the most prone to problems, by old I mean bought in the 70's. Modern metal standards have reduced the problem.
There is a huge variety of tin alloys available for a range of casting applications (and others with different applications such as bearings). The alloys vary in properties such as melting point, ability to reproduce fine detail, mallebility, brittleness etc. Impurities in the metal will affect those properties and much will depend on the quality of the metal used in producing the alloy.
It's worth bearing in mind that casting figures is commercial business and there's doubtless been producers in the past who have used 'cheap' batches of metal. Such batches are always available on the market but the drawback is, of course, the doubtful purity. I was once offered quantities of cadmium for an astonishingly low price. I asked out of curiosity whether the paperwork would evidence its quality; I was assured that the paperwork could say anything I wanted it to.
Even if people don't buy 'off the back of the wagon' they may still pick an alloy on the basis of cheapness rather than the suitability for the job. I'm sure we've all encountered figures with very poor detail - such items are clearly made using a lead-rich alloy which will be cheap but it's the proportion of tin which largely determines the detail obtained. Some alloys will include a lot of porosity (voids) which weaken the piece. And some alloys are quite brittle. I thus suspect that the figures in question were made cast using an unsuitable alloy. They'll also be susceptible to fatigue at places where the casting changes size or shape - ankles being a good example.
John mentioned 'lead rot'. Lead actually has good corrosion resistance to acids and seawater. I use lead sheet for adding weight to my model railway models and I've yet to see any 'rotting'. Take a look at your lead flashing or balance weights on wheels - they probably won't look like they are falling apart after years of exposure to varying temperature, humidity, pollution, etc. I'd agreed with John about "a load of rot"; any problems probably result from impurities in the poriginal metal.
Brian
Poriginal metal comes mainly from Scotland. Check the legs of any Highlanders in your collection.
Andy
Actually, this is a known/old weakness of the "Chariot" (Now MM) 15mm ranges, weak ankles.
Looking through my collection of 15mm DBA Armies (40 odd. with lots of, er, parts) casualties through accidental "Epic Fail" elements/figures are often Chariot.
I have a set of Gallic 3Wb from 24 different manufacturers (There may be an element of Peter Pig Germans that snuck in there...) I dropped at one point; Years ago. All survived except a rather nicely painted Chariot element (DBx speak), all THREE figures "snapped off" at the ankles.
And multiple similar examples in my hoard. :(
Bad news when figures break off.
If the figures are worth repairing I suggest the following.
1. Get some brass rod, 1mm from the model shop.
2. Drill into the figure's base and the "mounted on" base. thsi gives enough depth.
3. Drill into the figures figurative testicles :'(
4. Glue the rod into the figure's testicle area with super glue. make sure there is at least 4mm in. The rod needs to be "too long".
5.Holding the figure with the protrusion push it through the whole base so it comes out the other side.
6. Snip off/ any excess.
7. Apply another dab of super glue to strengthen the rod joint. Don't bother reinforcing ankles etc as the contact area will not create any better bond.
8. Paint rod black or dark brown.
If the above is not worthwhile then use figure as a casualty marker?
martin :)
That's a good idea for repairs, Martin.
Although I suspect that the figures might not fight so well once they've been neutered?
Simon
But at least they'll stand up straighter during parades!
My experience of CM has been that the ankles are too finely cast and consequently weaker and more prone to breakage. Better to build in more thickness making them more robust. Since most figures are viewed from the top down I believe some designers adopt the same trick the Greeks did with their columns and add a slight taper to compensate for perspective.
Martin I think you will find that under the Geneva Convention you are no longer allowed to drill into testicles. Apparently it can be a little painful.
I must admit I tend to use broken figures as wounded where possible. Using basing materials to disguise the bits that don't look right.
John
Well John, Nuts to that!
martin :)