As I'm painting Normans at present, I wondered if anyone has ever thought of using them in these rules?
I'm thinking mainly for the Norman conquest/'Harrying of the North' and 'Viking raids on Normandy' periods mostly etc.
Realistically, they can be based on the Carlingian's which are in the games already.
A few tweaks are likely needed - such as I would not allow their armoured cavalry to have any missile capability though and maybe reduce the minimum of unarmoured bases in a unit of mounted - and allow mounted units to start smaller. Not sure if they would need any combat changes... that would need more thought - they may get a little better in the first turn of combat.
mellis1644: I don't have an answer to your question, but am interested in what you're painting.
I've always fancied doing some Normans, but never found a range that I'm entirely happy with in 15mm.
I hope that someone will answer your query (you seem to be heading in the right direction) and that you'll post some pictures in due course.
Simon
I'm using a combination of Essex, Old Glory 15's and the new Forged in Battle figures. I'll post some photo's when I'm done - I always do to my Blog anyway.
I agree that many of the Norman models are not the greatest out there. I also find the shields especially are a challenge. I'm not big into transfers for shields in 15mm, even though my hand painting of the designs is not the best - I do try though. The typical thin and long Norman 11th/12th cent shield means doing anything interesting on them is hard.
I like to do large forces which mean I get to vary the manufactures and often will do so in a unit. Being one of the few 15mm fans (or rather one of the few who can get projects finished) in my area, I try to get multiple sides done so I can host games. I'm not fond of too many models with exactly the same pose, but I'm doing a few of those bases at the moment...
Sorry chaps, but I really hate the Normans. I can't help thinking that without them the British Isles would have developed more on Scandinavian lines and that today we would be living in a pleasanter and less class ridden society. Anyone else see a link between the small number of Norman barons who dominated England and the small number of over-privileged public schoolboys who are still running the country.
I once started a Norman army in 15mm, must be over 35 years ago, but got nowhere with it as I just loathe them.
Andy (also highly embarrassed that my surname is Anglo-Norman)
Andy,
I follow your logic. But surely this means that more egalitarian Vikings / Anglo-Saxons / Irish need a suitable target to duff up?
I would love to do Normans (as targets for Anglo-Saxons), but have not been happy with any 15mm range I've so far come across.
Simon
For what it is worth I am all in favour of trying new armies out. Good wishes for that.
Couple of points to throw into the mix.
The Normans are two hundred years later than the armies in the existing book.
Any advantages over the listed Carolingians given to the Normans might create a "best pick" army.
martn :)
I like the Normans, or at least their armies. However I am not sure about the benefits of having an Anglo Saxon state. They believed in a stratified society, like the Normans. They just didn't adopt feudalism, and who is to say that they wouldn't have done so at a later date.
John
Quote from: martin goddard on June 25, 2020, 12:17:42 PM
Any advantages over the listed Carolingians given to the Normans might create a "best pick" army.
Martin - I'm delighted to see you jumped straight into the "can we have some Carolingians at some point then, please?" trap here :D
Simon
I will join you in that wish Simon.
martin
Well, you have a lot on your hands at the moment, and it was significantly more than two weeks ago since you last mentioned it (at the last Longships Day, I believe), so I thought a gentle prompt might be in order ;)
Simon
This move abroad is causing me to down size considerably to the periods I really enjoy: Dark Ages, WOR, Italian Wars, ECW/TYW, SYW, ACW, Wars of German Unification and early WWI. Jettisoned all my Ancients, Earlier Medieval, most of the 28mm stuff and loads of old (and not so old) rule sets that just don't do it for me. My point is that to do Longships properly I want two foes, ships, camps, buildings, civilians and livestock. There just won't be room (or time) for Carolingians.
Agree Simon.
Mex rev next though, after some other things that need doing.
Good to be busy? :)
martin
That sounds like a plan, Martin, thanks.
And yes, I think busy is good. Albeit it's probably a little hot in the casting shed today - I hope you are supplying your workforce with regular supplies of iced tea and lollies?
Simon
I think it would be interesting to stretch Longships out to 1066, but some balance would be needed to stop thos armoured cavalry just trampling over everything in their path.
If Carolingians were done that would be great. I think Big Mike has used them before now in a game?
Quote from: Sean Clark on June 25, 2020, 11:53:24 PM
I think it would be interesting to stretch Longships out to 1066, but some balance would be needed to stop thos armoured cavalry just trampling over everything in their path.
Well the Norman milites kind of do 'clear a path' and are hard to stop with normal unarmoured troops. That would seem to be right.
But they should be rare and costly beasties. Later Saxons likely do have more armoured figs to face them down as well and they did fairly well in the right circumstances. However, the Norman weakness IMO would be their support troops, who would either have to poor, or few in number. Other than the big battles of 1066 this seems to fit fairly well with the history as well.
So you have an army with 1 or maybe 2 units/groups with some powerful troops (the Milites) and then the weak (low numbers or poor quality) support groups. In concept, both in a battle and a raid it then is a challenge for the Normans to get the best from the various elements of their force compared to the more traditional forces. Needs more thought on this but I could see this working...