So, Peter Pig offers three options: supply wagon, settler wagon, and chuck wagon. QRF has both a stage coach and a settler wagon. And Minifig, again, has a settler wagon and a stage coach. Those are the compatible options that I am aware of. Yet there were scores of different kinds of wagons through out the old west. Of course, Blue Moon greatly enhances the options, especially if you are willing to include the generic wagons from the Napoleon range. But it the old west they have a buckboard - probably the most common wagon - and a doctor's buggy, again quite common, and I think more but the site is down as I type so can't double check.
Just curious why Peter Pig only has the three options. Stage coach can easily be because of those other companies already having them already and, in my opinion, there's is the best settler's wagon. And only they offer a chuck wagon. Oh, and not to forget, they have nice destroyed wagon - which can be supplemented with a nice offering - in metal - from QRF. I've said this here before - really love to see a fringed topped surrey style wagon. Can modify the Russian WWI wagon for a brougham style wagon.
I don't expect anyone to offer scores of options but there are some glaring omissions with probably the most glaring being the mud wagon which existed in triple the quantity of the very heavy and quite expensive Concord coaches - the 'famous' stage coach of the movies.
Mind you, my insight is a bit different than most folks because I've laid in a total of 100 wheeled conveyances for my Old West/Plains Wars setup. And that reminds me, number 100 was a tumbleweed wagon that will need some modification to provide game table durability since it is an MDF version meant for long, long ago that I will adapt to the old west with new and proper wheels (from Stone Mountain miniatures) and seated men inside the bars. One only need watch Hang 'Em High to find a gaming use for tumbleweed wagon!
Can't help with much of what you ask, but I can suggest looking at Museum Miniatures and Magister Militum. Museum are a smidge bigger than PP, MM slightly smaller.
Both ranges have oodles of carts and wagons. They might have what you are after, or could be a good starting point for conversion.
@Fifteensaway - I suspect that commercial viability / other sculpting priorities more likely to have a wider market appeal could well explain why the Peter Pig range is as it is. Which I for one find impressively wide for 15mm in any case.
Many of us convert what we want if it isn't available precisely as we might like it.
Simon
I guess it's about time and money, do you spend time sculpting a waggon and parts for a sale of a few or same time sculpting WW2 Germans which will sell lots.
This is probably the reason all those companys haven't made the wagons you mention.
Stewart
Thank you Radar for a useful response. To the other master's of the obvious, maybe I'll wait another six months before bothering posting here. No wonder the site is so little travelled. Sorry, but it is very off putting.
That's a very unfair statement I feel...
Stewart was only telling the truth.
Martin can only sculpture so much at anyone time ?
Peter Pig has to make a profit like any other business.
Personally I would love him to sculpt a load of things but if I am the only customer and only buy 2 of it, not very good business???
Please think about it ?
If you can find 150 guaranteed customers for one thing that you wanted done say ? Then maybe Martin might do that product ?
I am only saying ?
This very much my own opinion, from the view of a close friend of PP work team and play testers.
Miles
Fifteensaway,
I'm sorry you found some of the responses to your query unhelpful. You did ask "Just curious why Peter Pig only has the three options". We tried to answer that question.
Simon
Perhaps the time has come for Martin to offer crowd funding on the site. Calculate how much it would cost to make a mold and if enough customers pledge the necessary amount, then go ahead with it. If it is not backed then it doesn't get made.
John
If you speak to Martin he is a one man band and has a long list of sculpts planed or in progress, either new to existing ranges (ACW generals) or replacing worn or damaged moulds.
Stewart
There are some interesting methods of funding being used by various manufacturers. The not-kickstarter method (Pendraken and North Star) seems quite good.
Requests become a list, people sign up for what they would like to buy, if commercially viable they get done. Some discussion on the Pendraken forum about it in action (Napoleonic ranges comes to mind). Seems to work for them. Plus one of their sculptors has done commissions which have then joined the main ranges.
Possibly works for Pendraken because they have a number of sculptors. Now if only Martin had some clones... ECW heads wearing secrets, dismounted ECW harquebusiers, insert the pack of your choice here, etc
If you go into "old glory uk" or "blue moon" they do the stagecoach and the buggies you require.
As they are already available, it could be why PP don't do them ???
Miles
As far as I am aware, Peter Pig have only ever been sculpted by Martin. Having witnessed the process first hand I am always amazed how you turn a lump of green putty and wire into the miniature marvels we all love.
I forget how long it takes from the initial idea for a sculpt through to it hitting the shopping cart. A typical ìnfantry pack has 3 unique sculpts. That might be 2 or 3 days work.
If there were more people involved in the process then I could see how there might be capacity for a crowd funding type project. Pendraken so this to an extent but have a small cadre of sculpters for their various ranges.
Martin's schedule is divided between entirely new designs and redoing older figures whose moulds have passed their shelf life.
I'm always amazed at the volume of new stuff Peter Pig turn out. Of course, it is entirely within Martin's gift to decide on an entirely new range that has caught his interest, or else producing some of the one offs like the Plague Doctors.
Whichever, I remain a loyal customer, happy with whatever comes, and enjoy seeing how ranges develop. Would I like a stage coach? Yes! But happy to carry on the rebuilding of my collection in the mean time.
In short, keep up the great work Martin!
Well said Sean.
I'm also grateful for Martin's work.
Thank you,
Martin Buck
Most of us on here are grateful for Martins work, especially on his figures.
Miles
Hello readers
Mixed feelings here.
I am always saddened if folk are disappointed with what I get done.
In some ways I am also flattered that folk want me to make stuff that they will buy.
I could list the next few packs that I am intending to do and readers could suggest what they should be replaced by.
That would come across as a bit petulant on my part. I will do that anyway :)
Here are some thoughts to help the whole move forward.
1. Do suggest what you think would be a good idea.
2. Do not take it as a negative if your suggestion is not realised.
3.Some suggestions co-incide with current plans. A happy synchronicity.
4.Bear in mind that I get about 3 packs per month done, thus 36 packs per year. Do your ideas take up a chunck of that and why?
5. New packs are limited by my ability/time to make them, not due to lack of ideas on my part.
6. I have no interest whatsoever in making packs that "help out another company's range". No one does it for PP.
7. I will not list packs that are a long way off, as folk often get annoyed when they are "not out yet".
8. I like to release some new ideas on a regular basis too. Keeps us interested??
Hope that helps.
For interest the next few packs for release will be an ACW general (union), a figure for the gamette. German WW2 in foxholes and German WW2 LMGs. Which of those should be replaced by a different suggestion?
I still smart for the 14th Army and French motorised projects which were "sure to sell by the bucketload".
martin
Martin,
I think most of us who have been on the Forum for a little while understand the constraints within which you work, and do appreciate the odd surprise you throw in too. The suspense of what might be next is fun, and keeps folk perusing the PP website. After all, it's not exactly as if there's not much there already to buy, is it?!
I say: please keep doing what you're doing.
If it's any consolation:
- I have bought both the 14th Army and French Motorised forces, and I do intend to actually paint both up one day ;)
- you probably sculpt faster than I paint...
Simon
I have a French motorised faction for PBI and I am now waiting for additional German paras for Crete game in September
Stewart
Quote from: Stewart 46A on March 16, 2020, 08:13:21 PM
I have a French motorised faction for PBI and I am now waiting for additional German paras for Crete game in September
Oh dear - you said the F-word... :(
And I too am awaiting planeloads of German early war paras - they'll sell by the bucket-load!
Simon
Martin, I don't think your reply came over as 'petulant' at all. I've always been amazed how much stuff you've managed to add to the ranges over the years, especially given the need for constant 'housekeeping/upgrading' of established lines as moulds wear out.
And you've got to focus on stuff that's i)consistent with existing ranges ii)commercially viable both short and long term iii) interesting and enjoyable for you to sculpt.
That's why I've never had a problem finding bits and pieces from other manufacturers to supplement the PP range sometimes (rather than the other way around), especially where equipment, the aforementioned stagecoach etc is concerned. My 1885 Sudan collection has Egyptian Regular Cavalry, Bengal Cavalry and Cuirassiers from Minifigs, for example and they fight (almost) as well as the PP figures. I also had some Minifigs highlanders originally but they were rapidly retired and sold on as soon as you released a couple of appropriate packs.
So, I'll never nag you for some of the "nice to have but..." figures that don't pass test 2 above. I have no idea (and won't ask) how many packs you need to sell to turn a small profit, and my opinion on what is a 'popular' period is going to be coloured by my personal preferences - Vietnam doesn't appeal to me for example, but I guess the sales figures encourage you to continue expanding/updating the range as you have done.
Nor will I now continue to nag you for 'fazands of Zulus, as that gap in the market is now covered by Blue Moon/Old Glory 15s/Khurasan. I do think there's an opportunity for WW1 East Africa/Arab Revolt, where only a limited number of packs might be needed to do the period justice, and the same applies to the Mexican Revolution (maybe the easiest to do, and complimentary to existing rules/ranges) but I appreciate all of these might be considered niche/sideshow wars.
For 40-odd years, I've always played WW2 in 20mm, but a mate wants to play 1940 East Africa in 15's so I've just bought enough PP packs (with some spare Indian heads) to put together a couple of Imperial platoons (we use 'Chain of Command' for platoon actions), and now you've got me looking at 14th Army stuff, dammit!
As you asked, I'd wonder whether having so many ACW general packs (with only 1 unique figure of 3) was worthwhile - I suspect you'd sell far more were you to sell them in packs of 4 different generals. I can see the sense of German LMGs if not already covered or in need of updating but not so sure about figures in foxholes? Like most of my circle, we make them ourselves, scratchbuilding or buying resin trenches and cutting suitable figures in half as required - you can spoon-feed people too much!
That's my 2 cents, interesting discussion and thanks for all your hard work that helped revive my interest in gaming - and no offence taken when/if you 'ignore' my eminently sensible suggestions for range extensions!
Now, about those Arabs...
Nag/nudge/suggest as much as you wish. Not a problem. I welcome it and am not upset by it.
Just be a "grown up" if your wishes do not always get done.
If you get angry or upset it "colours" the water of discussion here. That is a bad thing.
martin