Hi everyone,
A bit behind with completing my Western forces but well on the way. Just a couple of clarifications from the rules if at all possible.
Partial cover gives partial cover (to foot) and I assume LOS can be traced through partial cover with no problem. I am assuming that even if the target is in the open but the LOS passes through partial cover, the target can still claim the partial cover?
Artillery shooting mentions "target priority". No definition of what this is.
Under weapons "Bows" there is a comment that Bows do not generate "report", so acquisition of the bow shooter is more difficult" Does this affect return shooting in any way if a bow armed unit fires?
Last point is just what I think is the sequence of events with the rules.
Two units start the turn adjacent to each other. The active unit (lets call it A) rolls for activation and as soon as it rolls for this, the opposing unit(lets call that B!) can opportunity fire at it which it does. Unit A rolled very well for activation and can shoot twice and then assault. Unit A fires at B using its calculated dice which are doubled for two shots. Unit B can now return fire at A as it was shot at. After all the dust has settled unit A now assaults and the fight takes place.
Quite happy with the above and just want to make sure I have interpreted the rules correctly. Really looking to my first game and thanks in advance for your replies.
Barry
Hello Barry
I will try to help.
Partial cover gives partial cover (to foot) and I assume LOS can be traced through partial cover with no problem. I am assuming that even if the target is in the open but the LOS passes through partial cover, the target can still claim the partial cover? ONLY CLAIM PARTIAL COVER IF ACTUALLY IN IT.
Artillery shooting mentions "target priority". No definition of what this is. FACING SQAURES ARE PRIORITY , THNE DIAGONAL TOUCHING SQUARES THEN ANYTHING YOU LIKE.
Under weapons "Bows" there is a comment that Bows do not generate "report", so acquisition of the bow shooter is more difficult" Does this affect return shooting in any way if a bow armed unit fires? WHOOPS, THAT WAS A COMPLEXITY WE DELETED. SORRY
Last point is just what I think is the sequence of events with the rules.
Two units start the turn adjacent to each other. The active unit (lets call it A) rolls for activation and as soon as it rolls for this, the opposing unit(lets call that B!) can opportunity fire at it which it does. CORRECT
Unit A rolled very well for activation and can shoot twice and then assault. Unit A fires at B using its calculated dice which are doubled for two shots. Unit B can now return fire at A as it was shot at. YES After all the dust has settled unit A now assaults and the fight takes place. YES
.
Barry
Looking forward to hearing how your games go Barry :)
martin
Barry are you able to get to Entoyment hobby shop near Pool, Dorset?
If you can we can organise a 'Western day'
Stewart
Hi Martin,
Thanks for the clarifications - much appreciated. I'll drop a report in with photo's after the first game!
Stewart,
Thanks very much for the invite but I'm in Essex so not local! Have spent a week in Dorset before and if we do again I'll drop an e-mail to see if I can join you.
Regards
Barry
Essex isn't a million miles away. If need be you can book a BnB or hotel, cheaper if you can book early enough you can get a discount.
Just ideas, as the 3-4 hour drive on your own can be long.
Miles
Essex feels like it is that far every time I drive up to see the wife's aged father. (Yes I married an Essex Girl - Shenfield to be precise) Go on, get all the Essex girl jokes out. Any good ones I will relate to the wife and tell you the results.
Derek
Quote from: Moggy on February 21, 2020, 06:16:43 PM
Go on, get all the Essex girl jokes out. Any good ones I will relate to the wife and tell you the results.
That sounds like a far more dangerous activity than wargaming...
Simon
Just wondered how many of you I could get on the wife s**t list :o
Derek
Hi everyone,
Hope you all keeping safe and thanks for answering my previous queries. I have a few more queries if you don't mind.
Commanders.
Can Commanders shoot if they are on their own?
I think the answer is no as they have no AP's themselves and they only add their shooting factor (if a "Legendary" shooter) to the group and can count as a stand if firing as part of that group (p73 "Each Leader and Commander counts as a base"). The only time they "shoot" on their own is with the "Sniper" ability from the Posse/Lawmen faction and only then if a group is activated and uses that ability with the Commander nominated to fire.
How does a Commander get killed?
In the victory conditions at the game end, points are awarded if the enemy commander is wounded or worse. In the Commander description (p17) it states that a Commander returns to full health if wounded but is dead for the purpose of the narrative if he is killed.
The only way, as I read the rules, that a commander can be killed is if he is wounded during the game and by the end of the game all of the wounded bases end up dying in the end of turn rolls.
If using the "Method Matt" (p90) to calculate dead at the end of the game, unless every wounded base has been removed the Commander can be paired up with a wounded base to show he is still alive. The Commander wounded base is the same as any normal wounded base I assume or do you use a "special" wounded base for the Commander and roll specifically for him when determining if the base dies. I don't think this is the case as it's another level of difficulty which the game tries to avoid.
Liabilities.
In the General Notes (p46 first bullet point) a Liability can move 1 square per turn at no cost.
Under Movement it states "A liability may move up to 1 square per turn. Turn can be defined as either players." I read this as a liability can move one square in players A's turn, one square in players B turn etc. Is this correct?
It continues "Thus a group might arrive in the liability square and drag the liability along for another square without paying the additional AP."
Which is correct?
1. The group arriving in the liabilities square can move into another square dragging the liability with it at no cost whatsoever. (in effect a "free" square move)
OR
2. Does the group still use AP to move and the liability is moved with the group at no additional cost to the group for bringing the liability with it.
I think point 2 is correct.
Rivers.
Already looking at the additional rules and extras to make sure I have everything correct and ready to go when we decide to add a river. Just a clarification on a couple of the mechanisms please.
The fourth bullet point (p95) states "The river is placed along the attacker's table edge and occupies the whole row of 10 squares. Sounds straightforward but p58 describing how the table scenery is laid out, the captions to the second photograph states "There are no "Home Edges" to the table" so no attacker or defender edges!
I assume that if the defender selects a river both defender and attackers' edges are defined and fixed for the game as per above?
I cannot quite fathom out how the attacker is deployed at the game start if using a river. On p96 the fifth bullet point describes how defenders are placed.
The fourth bullet point describes how the attackers arrive but not how they are initially deployed. Are they deployed as per the rules (p61) i.e. choose a corner (would have to be a corner of the "defenders" edge unless one of the crossings is on a corner square of the "attackers" edge) and then roll for the other groups as per p61.
Is it that they are not deployed at all but arrive? So the attacking player choses a group (first choice he makes will be a group plus the Commander) a crossing point, rolls for AP, and carries out his move counting the first crossing square (his entry point as 1AP) or do they deploy on the crossing for free and then move off? If they have five or more groups only four can arrive in one turn as per the fourth bullet point on p96. Any further groups would have to wait off table until their next turn.
Trains.
On p98 under arrivals it states that the train must be occupied by the defender's reinforcement group.
What happens if there are two reinforcement groups? First one arrives by train and second arrives normally?
Legends.
The legend allocation table (p104) point number 11 is extra galloping. It states "3 more gallops allowed in any spread".
Is this 3 more gallops of 2 squares each (so 6 extra squares) or is it just 3 additional squares. (For Mexicans this is either 3 x 3 extra squares or again just 3 additional squares?)
Not quite sure how the extra gallops are applied. If the first point is correct (3 x 2 squares) can I give one mounted unit the entire spread of extra gallops? Six extra squares plus the normal two is a lot of squares? If they were Mexicans with White Horses that's even further!
Are the extra gallops added at the same time as the normal gallops or could I "gallop" carry out AP's and then use an extra gallop and the end?
Sorry for the detail I have gone into but having written policy documents in the past and carried out proof reading on others I cannot help looking into what is written. I think I know what's meant but that's not always how it reads!
Thanks again for your patience and looking forward to the answers.
Regards
Barry
A good set of questions Barry
I think I had better answer the one by one. :)
1.Can Commanders shoot if they are on their own?
Commander cannot shoot unless with a group.
2.How does a Commander get killed?
If a hit is applied to his base and he fails to save, then he is dead. The wounded marker that replaces his figure is just a generic wounded marker and not the man himself. He is gone to the trail in the sky.
At this point the commander counts as having been killed for the purpose of victory point calculation.
3. Liabilities
The intention is that a liability is a slow moving entity. Hence the 1 square movement rate.
In addition it is assumed that it does not move under its' own volition.
Liabilities are not a fighting piece.
Hence why liabilities are such things as civilians, pack mules and wagons.
These items would not choose to act on their own in a battle, except maybe to seek cover (hence the random movement function).
The liability costs no AP to move.
It can move 1 square. This is per unit per turn.
It does not confer a free square of movement upon the unit guiding it.
It can be moved by whatever unit is owning it at that time .
Thus, if player A has it he may move it 1 square in his turn.
If player B has it he may move it 1 square in his turn.
If player A/B does not have it, he may not move it.
A simple maxim might be "if you have it you can move it".
4. Where to put the river
The river is an optional rule. This means it is not part of the normal rules.
The river will only be along 1 edge.
Instead of "attacker's edge" you could easily call it "the river edge" if that gives some clarity to the confusion.
The attacker's units arrive at the river crossings.
The attacker will wait until it is his turn before deploying any units.
When his turn start he will select a unit of his choice and place it on a river crossing.
There are two river crossings.
Attacker's units can only arrive at these two squares/crossings.
Place an attacker unit of the player's choice on the crossing square.
Roll for AP and then use those AP. If the unit moves out of the crossing square then a second unit can arrive in the same turn in that very same square. This would allow up to 2 units per turn to arrive in a river crossing square.
Having said this, the first unit must move out of the square before a second one can arrive.
A good overall phrase here for memory might be "attackers can only arrive at river crossings". Otherwise the river would not affect the game in any significant way.
5. 3 more gallops
3 more gallops allows a legend to add 3 more squares to his movement in a turn. Thus, in his turn the number of gallops is increased by 3. Thus 2 gallop (a gallops is a square of movement)
A good phrase here to go by would be "a gallop is a square of movement".
A Mexican mounted leader (when on his horse) would indeed get 1 more gallop square for white horses, 2 gallop squares for being mounted and 3 more gallop squares if a legend with that skill. That would give his his basic movement plus 5 gallop squares.
This where it all gets very complicated indeed.
i will give the explanation a go.
"3 more gallops applied in any spread"
This is intended to mean the following.
A. The figures is allowed 3 more gallops in addition to what he is initially entitled to.
B. Usually gallops are applied after all AP expenditure movement is completed. However in this specific rule section the 3 gallops can be used within any combination of AP expenditure. e.g a figure might use 1AP to move and then utilise 1,2 or even 3 of his special extra gallops. After this he might return to using his AP. This does not prevent the figure from using his extra 3 gallops in the usual manner i.e. after his normal AP action expenditure.
Of course the figure does not have to use the extra 3 gallops. He could use none if he so wishes.
C. the figure with the extra gallops can use them (or not) every turn.
D. the gallops can only be used whilst the figure is mounted. This would still allow him to use the gallops at no AP cost, then dismount and use any AP still remaining. e.g. gallop, gallop, then use the two normally allowed gallops. Then dismount and use AP. that would be 4 squares of gallops before even dismounting. That is good indeed; but then he/she is a legendary horseman.
Hi Martin,
Thanks very much for the swift and concise reply. It is much appreciated and I'm glad to say your answers were pretty much as I had interpreted the rules so I hadn't gone off on a completely different tangent!
The extra galloping on the Legend table was perhaps the most complicated and I think to make that even easier (if we do use this optional rule) I will just give the force Commander that ability and allow three extra squares of movement after they roll their D6 for movement. Even a re-roll can be low but this will give them a good advantage with this skill. Will only apply if they move on their own and not with a group but does mean they can get where they need to be! After all, as you say, they are Legendary Horsemen!
You missed the query on the train arrivals! Was I correct in that the first reinforcement group arrives with the train and second arrives by the normal method?
Hopefully the last query (but you never know!) and it's in the Campaign rules. I really thought the campaign rules were inspired thinking. Simple yet elegant in their approach and we will definitely be using these when we start playing. Query is about group fights on p112.
It states fights are in the open unless a player gambles. It mentions that the Protector does all his gambles first, then the raider. If I'm the Protector and decide to gamble and I am successful, the terrain is changed to difficult. The Raider decides to gamble and is successful and brings it back to open. As I had to do all my gambles first does this mean I cannot respond anymore?
My interpretation of the rules is I think that I can now respond and maybe lose a base or bases until I change it again or decide to stop. The Raider does the same and it toggles back and forth between the two until one has to stop by either deciding he does not want to risk it any more or is reduced to just a single base. (p112 – "This gambling is optional and can be repeated until only the leader remains") The reference further down the page that gambles can be repeated until only 2 bases left I assume refer to just a leader base left from both the Raider and the Protector force?
Thanks again for your patience and I'll send some photos of the set up once it's all done. Maybe some words on how I approached this little project for inclusion in the 15Mil!
Regards
Barry
Hi Martin,
Know you are busy but any chance of just making sure I've got the last question I raised interpreted correctly.
Thanks again.
Regards
Barry
Hello Barry
Sorry i missed this one. But have been reminded!
The Protector must use any gambles first. this means he may proceed with gamble after gamble (repeatedly and consecutively) until he gives up or gets the closed scenery he wants.
After this the raider gets to carry out any gambles he wishes.
You are correct that a whole bunch of protector gambles could be made useless by one success by the raider. thsi gives the raider a better chance of getting the scenery he wants, as he will ambush where he wants.
martin :)
Hopefully the last query (but you never know!) and it's in the Campaign rules. I really thought the campaign rules were inspired thinking. Simple yet elegant in their approach and we will definitely be using these when we start playing. Query is about group fights on p112.
It states fights are in the open unless a player gambles. It mentions that the Protector does all his gambles first, then the raider. If I'm the Protector and decide to gamble and I am successful, the terrain is changed to difficult. The Raider decides to gamble and is successful and brings it back to open. As I had to do all my gambles first does this mean I cannot respond anymore?
My interpretation of the rules is I think that I can now respond and maybe lose a base or bases until I change it again or decide to stop. The Raider does the same and it toggles back and forth between the two until one has to stop by either deciding he does not want to risk it any more or is reduced to just a single base. (p112 – "This gambling is optional and can be repeated until only the leader remains") The reference further down the page that gambles can be repeated until only 2 bases left I assume refer to just a leader base left from both the Raider and the Protector force?
Thanks Martin - much appreciated!