Just some random thoughts.
Fantasy is a very expansive area of potential gaming. Players can field anything in terms of forces they agree to between consenting adults.
This can be limited by
1. Adherence to "every one has 2 arms 2 legs, 5foot 7 inches height and talks English" Hollywood restriction.
2. Weapons are often implausible. This ranges from the 5 foot sword to women in teenage boy inspired fantasy outfits.
3. Characters dominate all, in terms of survivability, killing power and army control. A product of films and books in which the story revolves around the two main protagonists with all others being background props.
4. Strict understanding of what an Elf/Goblin/Pixie was really like. ::)
So here is the discussion point (at last).
What is the market for products that do not adhere to the above tropes. Bear in mind this is not a pitch for A PP range. :D
1. Could there be victory conditions that are completely different for both sides. Not just kill everyone. e.g one player should attempt to capture all the dead bodies. Whilst the other player is attempting to capture all the horses he can.
2. Could there be different methods of fighting. One player needs to form groups which make opponent figures change sides. Other player fights by digging pits.
3.Could there be non star trek troop types. One player has slithery star fish creatures of 5mm size. The other player has suction holes that move about.
The above would interest me. But then I said it. ;)
A final thought. ::)
A bit tongue in cheek but ;)
An army of very slender, european tall beautiful females with very long flowing hair (cannot sculpt those) with breasts exposed and massive two handed bladed weapons. Armour would be limited to thighs and lower arm in order to show the detail. Shields left off for the same reason.
You forgot the g-string of invincibility, and the warboots with stiletto heels.
I think you're onto a winner here, Martin!
Your are right for the general tropes of fantasy gaming. I'm not into fantasy backgrounds much so IMO Fantasy gaming seems to fall into 3 camps -
* GW - IMO they get their own category as they are the bug players here. These days some wonderful models I see on the shelves/the web, but 'très cher' aka VERY expensive indeed. I can't comment on the rules much as don't play them but they often seem to have a large number of toys of the table, many of which fit you definition.
* other 28mm games which are pretty much all skirmish sized - 5 to 60 figs per side, often in their own universe with their own figs, but if not they still follow the traditional models and a real world model. Again typical of exactly what you say with their 'own take' - which is often not much different than others really if you ignore the background. So basically what you see in the Tv etc.
* 15 mm (or smaller) which are basically 'fantasy historical'. Often feel very much like the historical games and based on the same but just with a few fantasy items (spells/flying models etc.) as well.
To be honest that seems to be what the various groups want. Too weird/away from the Tv/video game norm and I doubt the games would sell well.
Yes, agreed. The world as it is.
Quote from: mellis1644 on April 29, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
* GW - IMO they ... ... are the bug players here.
Great way of looking at things :)
Quote from: Colonel Kilgore on April 29, 2019, 09:38:10 PM
Quote from: mellis1644 on April 29, 2019, 03:15:04 PM
* GW - IMO they ... ... are the bug players here.
Great way of looking at things :)
A typo but it works here in both cotexts.
Note, GW seem to be doing things right in 'fantasy land' at least around here. Warmachine and other fantasy games have taken a hit in the last year or so in retail and also in the amount they are played. GW is on a real charge it seem. I will admit I'm tempted by the models of some of their new systems as well.
games workshop do seem to be the biggest player in fantasy sci-fi. At the local hobby store GW events pack the players in . Their space and fantasy events are very well supported. There were 40 players at the latest event of Sci fi 40K. Most impressive. Also the star wars fighter combat is almost as popular; based on store events.
Ben plays most Sundays at the Southampton store (whilst his mum shops), they are very good offering advice on painting, model making, and gaming. He knows the staff, the young lads who also play well and is comfortable being there. Their Nottingham base is really worth a visit, display hall is outstanding, they even have a café that serve pretty good food. My wife who has no interest in the hobby is happy to visit and sit in the café reading (I said no interest in the hobby!)
I know there are a lot of knockers of GW, but they get a thumbs up from Ben and I.
Wardy
i will certainly visit them sometime. Also interested in the warlord open days in the same area. Caliver books is there too. Maybe I shall go..
North Star and the Perry's are also there. Nottingham has become a little bit of a war gaming hub. Guess there are a lot of GW connections?
Its worth staying over for a couple of days, that what we try and do. You should do it Martin you would enjoy it.
Wardy
I think you'll find the East Midlands lead belt the home of wargames ;)
To be honest GW are responsible for taking wargame rules from them roughly printed bits of paper from the 70' to what they are now ! So we have to be thankful for that. Because each rule set is an insert it our hobby. Not just facts and figures and a load of numbers and words anymore.
GW is the undisputed (?) market leader in fantasy.
GW are a great company with great products.
I believe that GW has had almost zero effect on historical games and gamers.
They very much created their own inclusive hobby. This means they have actively avoided any overlap with other parts of the hobby and it has worked well for them. Their figures cannot be used in historical games .
Wargaming was growing strongly before GW even existed.
Personally i have never played a GW game. i have only ever bought 1 GW figure. Also bought 3 of their green mats (excellent).
All their stuff is very high quality.
All the advances in gaming i have experienced have not been GW created. i.e. metal figures, injection moulded figures, polyhedral dice, measuring in inches, 6x4 table size, acrylic paint, rule books etc...
I suspect that all of the GW founders started wargaming with existing wargame products (they worked for Bob Connor TTG etc) made by other companies.
Yes, great products, great quality but overpriced. Clever marketing, having to buy regular rule updates etc, I didnt mind when they sold metal figures, but stopped buying when they charge silly prices for plastic. I went the other way and collected the earlier rules and became more interested in Oldhammer... until moving scale completely to 15mm fantasy.
I avoid the local wargame clubs as they seemed to be all Flames of War and GW inspired.
GW is one of the factors which IMO stops the fabled greying of the hobby - which I don't think really exists.
They are very good at recruiting youth and bringing people into the hobby. I often find people who 'get back into gaming' or move to historical have started in GW. Just as my generation (us in the 40's/50's) started with airfix in the UK I think many in their 20's and 30's start with GW or roleplaying.
They are not cheap but the models are outstanding.