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Author Topic: First game questions  (Read 785 times)

mellis1644

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First game questions
« on: February 13, 2017, 03:27:18 PM »
Well this weekend we managed to have a first game of RoF - battle scenario.  I want to have another game (or two) before doing a blog write up of the game. We really liked the pre-game and and the terrain set up but I do need to check a few things out to ensure that we played the rules right. We did find the game fairly bloody (maybe that's the intention) but overall had fun.

I may have more questions for more knowledgeable players but my first set are here:

* Can a unit which was the target of a fight shoot as well in that turn? Does the answer depends on whether it withdrew, won or lost the the fight?

* Are we correct in assuming that the extra hits given by the results of a fight are a continuation of the fight and continue the allocations rules from that. Or are these deemed new and thus the opponent allocated the first 2 and start that again?

* It seems a little odd that thick hedges don't block art line of slight/art shots. That's how we understood the rules and played it but as states feels a little odd. Did we do that right?

* Do you allocated saves to bases or units? i.e. can the owner allocate 4 hits to a standard foot unit and the if he fails 2 decide to take off any combination of bases (say 2 shot) or are they explicitly allocated and rolled for base by base - so he may lose half a base of pike and half of a shot etc.

* Support squares - do they count if a fight is occurring (but has not been resolved yet) in those squares? If so I assume it's possible for both sides get support from that square if they have 2.5 bases of troops present?

* Is the removal of casualty markers for units winning fights done at the time of the fight or in the morale stage ? I.e. are the winners not given casualty markers (and any they have already removed) or is this done at the morale stage for a square (or unit) with a winning the fight marker?

* Either way is this 'winning the fight' Úlan removal of casualties for the square or just for the unit with that advantage?

* Do the 1/2 bases removed as the unit is too small to continue count as a casualty?

* It seems a little odd that winning cavalry which pursue off the table can come back that same turn and in theory at the other side of the battle. They can teleport over to the other side & edge of the table... :)

* Do all bases of the loser in a pursuit count as being dead - for victory purposes?

Well that's it so far. I may have others as I continue to reread the rules.

Thanks in advance.

Leslie BT

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Re: First game questions
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2017, 04:53:37 PM »
answers* Can a unit which was the target of a fight shoot as well in that turn? Does the answer depends on whether it withdrew, won or lost the the fight?  No

* Are we correct in assuming that the extra hits given by the results of a fight are a continuation of the fight and continue the allocations rules from that. Or are these deemed new and thus the opponent allocated the first 2 and start that again?   First part right

* It seems a little odd that thick hedges don't block art line of slight/art shots. That's how we understood the rules and played it but as states feels a little odd. Did we do that right?  Yes

* Do you allocated saves to bases or units? i.e. can the owner allocate 4 hits to a standard foot unit and the if he fails 2 decide to take off any combination of bases (say 2 shot) or are they explicitly allocated and rolled for base by base - so he may lose half a base of pike and half of a shot etc.  Yes, and the hits are split evenly to all units in the square

* Support squares - do they count if a fight is occurring (but has not been resolved yet) in those squares? If so I assume it's possible for both sides get support from that square if they have 2.5 bases of troops present?  Yes

* Is the removal of casualty markers for units winning fights done at the time of the fight   Yes or in the morale stage ? I.e. are the winners not given casualty markers (and any they have already removed)  Yes or is this done at the morale stage for a square (or unit) with a winning the fight marker?

* Either way is this 'winning the fight' Úlan removal of casualties for the square or just for the unit with that advantage?  Yes all units fighting in the square

* Do the 1/2 bases removed as the unit is too small to continue count as a casualty?  No and all casualties for any unit removed are removed as well

* It seems a little odd that winning cavalry which pursue off the table can come back that same turn and in theory at the other side of the battle. They can teleport over to the other side & edge of the table... :)  Yep

* Do all bases of the loser in a pursuit count as being dead - for victory purposes?   No, any live bases if the unit is large enough would become reinforcements, otherwise dead

mellis1644

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Re: First game questions
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2017, 09:25:47 PM »
OK thanks for the reply - they do help. With reading the rules again and these clarifications I think I'm ironing out most of the odd things we did wrong. We still enjoyed the game though. :) A couple of quick extra questions.

* From your comment on the VP for full bases lost, do we only count those bases lost from still active units? This means, if the whole unit is lost then that counts as a unit lost on the VP generation list not bases as well. Unless I'm mistaken from your comment unit loss VP's are not cumulative to lost bases. That makes a big difference and something I had missed. :)

* So I understand the pursuit rules can I give an example and make sure I am understanding things correctly. An example from our game:

In a fight we had 3 aggressive horse units and a general (the attackers) vs. three trotters (the defenders). The aggressive horse won and killed one base of one of the defending units, while losing 1/2 a base of one of their own units after all saves are done. So the defenders lost and take 3 more hits, saving 2 of them and taking another 1/2 base on the unit already hit - that means that unit is routed through losses. We also check if the aggressive horse lose their aggression around about now as well.

But the important thing for the example is then attacker then rolls 3 die for potential pursuit and lets say they get a single six.

This means a pursuit is on. I believe now all the remaining defending units just get auto killed (count as units dead?). So the undamaged trotter units are just put back in the box - that's what we did. However, I think from your comments they become re-inforcements for the defender, so that's what I want to check...

Meanwhile, the attacker can decide which units raid the baggage vs. can roll for return as reinforcements and may return on the defenders base line not their own this turn. The attackers general is guaranteed to return. Is this correct ?

P.S. In our game the aggressive horse all returned on the other flank that turn after making their reinforcements roll - 2 die each, both making a 5+ <sigh>. Thus the teleport comment and they caused a lot of issues.

I think Prince Rupert would have loved to have had such a chance to control his pursing units -but maybe he did and he was as poor a die roller as I am when key rolls are needed. ;)

martin goddard

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Re: First game questions
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 09:54:23 PM »
Maybe I can help add to the confusion!
When cavalry pursue, their opponents are all lost forever. The units chased off the table never return at all. This affects all mounted units in the losing square IF a 6 is scored by winning cavalry units.
e.g  a winning square contains 3 horse units. The winning player rolls 3D6. He scores 3,4,6. The single 6 indicates that all of the loser's cavalry units in that square are removed from the game permanently. Any foot units just fall back in the normal losing way.
It is assumed that the combat results in losing cavalry running away and thus exiting their own table edge. The winners are presumed to have followed up and thus exit on the loser's table edge. This is why pursuers re-appaer on the opponent table edge. They have chased their opponent off the table in the direction of the opponent's table edge. After having pursued, they may loop around but still  re- appear from their opponent's table edge.

The pursuers may stop their pursuit sooner or later. Don't forget that the game only usually lasts 6 turns. Thus cavalry absent for 2 turns have spent a third of the battle pursuing. Cavalry are very mobile and able to get back in time to finish the battle.

The rule is nice and simple but could be sub-divided to make differences between discipline levels, command ability, distance of camp from battlefield, how late in the battle etc.
Do add more rules if it makes the game better for you chaps.

mellis1644

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Re: First game questions
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2017, 06:36:08 PM »
Thanks Martin - so we were doing it right. :)

I actually like the pursuit concept/rule as it does model my understanding of the cavalry battles of the period. It definitely adds risk to big cav vs cav fights as well. The only issue was the speed of return. Many battles were lost because winning cavalry returned in too few numbers or too late to have an impact on the day - such as in Edgehill, Marston moor etc. This was a command and control issue for most commanders in the day.

I might restrict pursing cavalry to not be re-inforcements in the turn they pursue off the table in our games. I understand the limits to the number of turns but that reflects problems of getting aggressive cav under control. They have swept their opponents from the field but there is a negative to that as well. From my reading I believe the ECW cav were never good at returning after such a sweeping success against their opponents.

This may also mean we have a risk vs. reward of a large 3 unit force vs. defense in depth.

Thanks again.