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Author Topic: British battles program  (Read 345 times)

martin goddard

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British battles program
« on: May 20, 2020, 09:44:27 PM »
Watched the program on Bosworth battle.
Quite interesting.
I felt that it needed some battle diagrams.
Maybe some animations, such as used in Time Commanders?
Big mention of French pikeman employed by Henry Tudor.

martin

Colonel Kilgore

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2020, 09:59:09 PM »
I've not seen it, but rather than diagrams, how about a table full of model soldiers to make the point?

Simon

Antioch (Bob)

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2020, 10:28:36 PM »
I tried to get to see it, but it would not run for anyone in N America.

I imagine either figures or a decent diagram would help the viewer understand much better.

Bob

Sean Clark

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2020, 07:52:39 AM »
Does it stick with Ambion Hill as the location of the fighting?

martin goddard

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2020, 08:29:40 AM »
It got a little confused I feel.
It used Ambion hill several times as the launch area for  the Yorkist attacks.
They did a bit of standing about on Ambion hill looking out too.
Then they did the walking on the proper(?) site.
I think it was made for a  wider audience than just us fussy folk.

Here is the tick list

Some re-enactors
Some weapons
A gun going bang
Some flags
Some walking about
Some personal background on Ricjard and abit on other psersonaliiies.
Job done.

Albeit my personal wishes are of little importance when making a programme i really would have  liked to see it done with a good visual of the battle. Just a thought.

My dream would be the addition of a ground level view. "Here we stand in teh front rank of teh  Yorkist army centre. We can see the enemy left flank over there commanded by....  Notice how close the enemy are at this start of battle point. I can see their faces. There is the church at Dadlington just over there. The flags seen there are those of..."

Then some other ground level views. I could not do it but those modern shooter games seem able to do a good job.


martin


martin

Radar

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2020, 09:16:17 AM »
I know diddly about the WotR, other than wot A level history and A level Eng Lit (Shakespeares Richard 3) learned me  a gazillion years ago. Visited the battlefield and Leicester Richard 3rd museum (and cathedral) last year, so I know a little. Nowhere near full anorak status, maybe a beginner's proficiency badge.

I thought it was okay, admittedly I rested my eyes for a 15 minute period, so possibly not the greatest endorsement. It piqued my interest, made we want to know more. So, it achieved it's  goal I'd say.

The Naseby one was similar, a few clangers but nothing too galling. Judging by the increase in hits on my Naseby posts (on my blog) it has got people interested, which can only be a good thing.

Agree with some good visuals for the battle. But having 'starred' in a few 999 documentaries  (in role with mountain rescue) they really do churn these programmes out on a minimal budget. Film crew usually consists of two people, and maybe a presenter. Scripts are made up on the day based around some notes. Maybe the BBC4 Lucy Worsely/Alice Roberts extravaganzas have bigger crews/budgets?

John Watson

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2020, 11:05:09 AM »
Radar beat me to the punch re budgets. The more "extras" and CGI wizardry the greater the cost, etc.
I also wonder at the depth of knowledge of some presenters/directors/producers on some of these programmes. Some, like Michael Wood, Neil Oliver and Tony Pollard, I can identify as highly knowledgable in their fields (if not experts), but others fall short of that level. Much as I love Dan Snow and Mark Urban's programmes are they fronting the shows because of their subject knowledge, or are they upfront due to their technical ability as presenters with an enthusiasm for the subject.
I suppose the bottom line is did you watch the programme, did you enjoy it, and how much did you learn from it. My worry is that where inaccuracies occur is there a danger that these inaccuracies become "urban myths".
John

Radar

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2020, 11:44:51 AM »
John's correct about repeating errors so often they become 'lore'. You've only got to look at the film Cromwell to see how artistic licence has become accepted truths.

Sean Clark

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2020, 02:07:33 PM »
I think Dan Snow has some credibility. He is certainlyenthusiastic about his subject. His History Hit podcast is a good listen. I suspect he is looked down on by hardnosed academics, I think for the more casual, journalistic approach to history he does a good job.

The same with Mark Urban. His book Fusiliers was very good.

I have to say as an amateur armchair historian, is rather read Max Hastings or James Holland than the more academically recognised texts.

Alan

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2020, 08:24:37 PM »
A massive over emphasis on the gunpowder weapons but not so much time spent on the other troops or their tactics.

I can't recall any battle diagrams showing who was deployed where. Admittedly we don't know for sure but Oxford and Norfolk facing off against each other, Richard with the reserves and Northumberland on the Yorkist left possibly unable to advance because of the marsh and/or the threat of the Stanleys hovering on the Yorkist left flank seems about right.

I thought it was OK. I wasn't aware the budget was so small so I suppose a decent effort under the circumstances. All but one (see below) of the series told me nothing I didn't already know but when you've been wargaming nearly 40 years that's to be expected, these things aren't made for wargamers, they are just trying to give an overview to the "layman".

Why on earth they picked Kett's Revolt (yes, really?) for the last one is beyond me. An obscure revolt against Edward VI with no chance of dethroning him. I can only assume budget constraints. I'd have thought Sedgemoor or Culloden would have been much better choices.

John Watson

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2020, 10:51:16 PM »
Ketts revolt could have been selected due to cost of production or any number of reasons. Perhaps the writer or producer had an interest in the subject. Perhaps the battlefield was of interest. I don't know. The other thing to bear in mind is whether or not this series is a one off or not. If the producer is hoping/expecting further programmes this might explain why other more obvious battles were not chosen in the first series. Let's face it there is no shortage of subjects.
Perhaps we should put it to a vote. Which is your favourite British battle and why?
Mine would be Barnet 1471. The fog (literally) of war and the discrepancy between the sources as to the deployment of forces. It also featured my hero, the Earl of Oxford.

martin goddard

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2020, 09:03:10 AM »
I can always spend a day with some /any group member and make a video of a battle.
Might be wise to do one near to someone's residence (or no more than 260 miles :)).
Could then do it with figures and "cut" that in to the walk filming.
20 minute program.
Put it out on You tube.
May be a less well known battle might be easier?
Trafalgar and Jutland would out at this time (probably).

The criteria might be
1. What battle can be walked all over or permission sought.
2. Are there figures, scenery  and models available.
3.Knowledge from us plus locals(not necessarily those who remember the actual battle).
4. A battle with some salient local feature.

Of course a battle could be done really badly in order to maximise publicity. Insert "faction","warband" and astrology? ::)

Thoughts?

martin

martin goddard

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2020, 09:12:51 AM »
For my part i do not have may land battles locally.
I can drive though once the conditions are lightened. Maybe Stewart and other locals would come too? That would give us a pike phalus or testicle formation?

Within easy striking distance for myself are
1 Maiden castle. Very good condition. Roman assault on a big hill fort.
2. Corfe castle. Wars of the roses and ECW.
3. Wareham. Not much left. Viking assault on Saxon forces. Still good though.
4. Alton  ECW


https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryMagazine/DestinationsUK/BattlefieldSites/

martin

John Watson

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2020, 09:52:24 AM »
Cheriton ECW is about my nearest. A bit further afield is Basing House ECW, Newbury 1 and 2 ECW, Cropredy Bridge ECW, Tewkesbury WOR.
There are plenty more scattered across the land though.
John

Colonel Kilgore

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Re: British battles program
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2020, 02:01:31 PM »
That's a really nice idea Martin. Maybe focus on WOTR initially to raise interest in the most recent RFCM ruleset?

Simon