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Author Topic: BB28  (Read 320 times)

John Watson

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Re: BB28
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2019, 09:37:44 AM »
On livery colours and banners and standards don't forget that the Lance and Longbow Society produce and stock a large range of booklets and flagsheets in 15mm. Just visit their website for details.

Sean Clark

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Re: BB28
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2019, 09:28:47 PM »
I finally played my first playtest of the rules today. I used the 'normal army' (Lancaster) consisting of 2 Household, 7 Retinue, 4 Levy and 1 Heavy Gun defending against the good quality (Yorkist) army made up of 4 Household, 5 Retinue and 2 Cavalry.

Rather than make new templates or mark up a new cloth I used 12"x6" zones and I think it worked great. The play area was 3'x2' and could realistically be played on a dining room table or even coffee table!



As it's my first play through it was a bit slow at first and I probably got a few things wrong but here are my thoughts anyway.

1. The attacker seems to have little control over scenery. For variety I chose 1 wood, 1 linear, 1 buildings and 1 hill to add to the compulsory rough hill and marsh. Due to how it worked out the Cavalry had no where to go. On their right wing, the defenders were in a wood on their reserve line. The centre had buildings in the attackers battle line, a marsh in the defenders battle line and a hill on their reserve line. On their left flank the defenders had the linear in the battle line and the rough hill on their reserve line. At no time did the situation crop up where the cavalry could be used. If playing the attacker I would opt for the sunny meadow to ensure some good ground but it is still in the hands of the defender as to where that ground ends up.

2. I couldn't find where it explicitly said that when carrying out defender losses that the defender had a save against the hits allocated. I assumed that they did but I couldn't see this written anywhere. In the game, I played the Lancastrians as bold and the Yorkists as cautious. Consequently the Lancastrians got to 32 on the chase before the Yorkist were able to roll a single dice! Unusual I know, but it ended up with a level 1 defender taking 7 hits per zone and a 25% chance of any uint being off table in reserve.

3. As I read it, there is no cover bonus from shooting. You are either 'within' and can't be shot at (or shoot yourself) or your not 'within' and can shoot and be shot at. The benefit comes in the fight.

4. Does the recipient allocate all hits up to 2 per unit with the attacker allocating any after that?

5. I liked ward recovery but found that once battle is joined, there is little opportunity as there is contact all along the line.

6. Sideways movement had me scratching my head. I understand that you have to roll to leave scenery and to assault sideways. Do you have to roll for ALL sideways movement?

7. The 1 out, 1 in rule - Is that for where one ward is behind another so a unit moves backwards or forwards? No sideways move? It;s probably in the rules already but during the game I couldn't find it.

8. When assaulting sideways, can you do so even if you have enemy on your front face? I suspect not but again can't find the specific passage in the rules telling me either way.

I have to say, I was a bit sceptical about the design with only 3 columns of zones split into 4 rows. On purely reading the rules I struggled to grasp how the whole thing would work. Martin said to me on Sunday that the 3 columns act like pistons pumping up and down. That clarified things a bit. However, having now actually had toys out on the table it has all suddenly gelled. Wars of the Roses battles are not subtle affairs. There was generally an archery duel followed by a clash of the two lines which lasted until one sides will gave up. The game looked like what I imagined a WotR battle probably looked like.

Yes, there are necessary abstractions. Early in the game following the first fight, the attackers defeated the defenders in a wood on their reserve line and held a 9 to 5 advantage on ground held. The defenders were able to use their central ward to counter attack sideways and pushed the attackers back out of the wood. Had they lost this fight the game would have ended on the 4th turn. As it was, they did win and held the wood for the rest of the game.

Having now run through the victory points I can see the importance of hills. I'll bear this in mind for the next game. General abilites are a nice touch but I think I forgot about them during the game.

The pregame scenario builder is nice too. Attacker and defender won 2 each. The defenders gained a reroll on ward recovery and also prevented the attacker from ANY ward recovery rolls. The attacker was able to swap two of the defenders zones, which put levy defenders in the wood trying to hold off the attackers household troops. They also gained two winning the foight markers which I think I forgot about!

I liked the artillery mechanism. Although potentially deadly with a heavy gun rolling 6 dice, hitting on 6's causing instant kills and with a reroll to boot, it only managed to fire twice in the game due to slow reloading. Very accurate I think.

It was a shame I couldn't manufacture a situation where the cavalry could be used but I wanted to play the game as written to get a feel for how the whole thing came together. I suspect that this will lead to some interesting decisions on how you build your army and choose your scenery.

The game ended in a 37 to 13 win for the defenders. the attcekrs had a slight advantage in gorund held (8 pts to 7pts) but lost more men and had their C in C killed. The defender also held both hills. The scores felt right giving the right result.

Overall, I had a great time and probably managed to play through the game in a little under 3 hours. Considering I have not played them before and was scratching my head a bit at times, I thought that was very reasonable. Towards the end things were a lot smoother and a 2 hour game should be very achievable.

Thumbs up from me so far.

Colonel Kilgore

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Re: BB28
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2019, 09:34:04 PM »
Nice photo and write-up Sean - well done on getting the toys out at last!

martin goddard

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Re: BB28
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2019, 09:43:16 PM »
Excellent report Sean. Thank you.   The photo really adds clarity. You have produced something we can all observe and talk about. Good move forward. will get some responses sorted tomorrow. Too late tonight for my thoughts.

Stewart 46A

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Re: BB28
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2019, 10:09:34 PM »
Glad you enjoyed the game Sean, your attackers look like they went through the snow around your home.
Martin has priced cavalry low so you won’t get upset if they stay in barracks

Sean Clark

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Re: BB28
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2019, 11:37:59 PM »
Yes I wasn't upset by it. I think The household foot should have won the day but thats the beauty of dice. Given the chance the cavalry would have been useful. I think if you're going to include them you need to do all you can to manufacture a situation where they can be used.

martin goddard

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Re: BB28
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2019, 05:46:25 AM »
Response 1
I can see that the scenery was very "blocking".
This is probably due to it having started on the defender's edge and flank.
The second consideration is that the scenery takes up half of the zones used.

Here are my thought processes, in case that is of interest.


Thoughts
Scenery is important because:-
A. Gives the general/player  an extra consideration. Good generals use scenery well and can adapt to new situations.
B. To give authenticity. WOTR battles had scenery which mattered.
C. To mark out the zones. Ease of play.
D. Chance to create a good looking game and show imagination when building scenery.


Solution (??????)
1. Allow more navigable scenery and lessen tough scenery. Introduce meadow.
2.Start scenery in corners (plus).
The aim is to keep it elegant.


i will put a new system into BB29.




Nick

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Re: BB28
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2019, 12:11:15 PM »
Not sure about the scenery placement rules at present. Scenery placement currently favours the defender very heavily - they get to place the first item and obviously will place it on one of the corners on their own side and then the rest follows on from that placement. Only the defender gets a chance to move scenery around too. I realise the defender needs more control over scenery, but I think that maybe the attacker needs a little bit of help at set up too.

Nick

Sean Clark

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Re: BB28
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2019, 02:33:10 PM »
I think the sunny meadow will be almost an auto include for the attacker. The issue being that a savvy defender will ensure he places it somewhere not useful. I do agree that the defender needs more control than the attacker but then a good attacking general will try to negotiate a battle on favourable terrain and may refuse to attack if the land is unfavourable.

I will most likely continue to play with 12"x6" zones as it suits my scenery collection and fits on a nice small table.

Nick

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Re: BB28
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2019, 02:40:22 PM »
I'm using 12x6" zones too, it is more convenient and allows for use of existing scenery templates from other RFCM rulesets.

Nick