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Author Topic: Help! ECW Lowland Command  (Read 183 times)

Westie

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Help! ECW Lowland Command
« on: November 15, 2018, 04:38:48 PM »
Hi, I'm about to paint the officer in the ECW Lowland Command set and I'm flummoxed by what he is wearing. Is he wearing a buff leather jacket which he has unbuttoned and thrown over his back like a cape? Grateful if someone could explain what he is wearing. Thanks.

Radar

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Re: Help! ECW Lowland Command
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2018, 05:25:37 PM »
I just painted mine as a gilet. Clearly mine are ahead of their time and it should actually be a jerkin.

Possibly a bit of clan tartan?

martin goddard

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Re: Help! ECW Lowland Command
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2018, 10:01:22 PM »
I will go and have a look on the morrow.

Westie

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Re: Help! ECW Lowland Command
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2018, 02:06:44 PM »
Look forward to seeing what you have to say, Martin. Thanks to Radar, also. That helps to confirm my own guess that it is possibly the kind of sleeveless buff leather jerkin you see being worn throughout the Civil Wars in all armies. However, if that is the case, what puzzles me is why he would unbutton it if he was about to enter a fight. Don't think any tartan is involved - he is a lowlander and specific 'clan' tartans are more of a 19th Century invention.

If anyone has the Osprey Men-at-Arms book, Scots Armies of the English Civil War, perhaps that might provide the answer? I don't have this myself but, since starting this topic, I've managed to find the cover of the book on the Osprey Publishing website. As you will see from the link below, the cover illustration may help to confirm what I (and Radar) were thinking. As you will see, the Ensign is wearing a sleeveless buff leather jerkin - not thrown over his back like a cape, mind you, but definitely unbuttoned.

https://ospreypublishing.com/scots-armies-of-the-english-civil-wars

Radar

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Re: Help! ECW Lowland Command
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2018, 02:41:39 PM »
I've got the MaA Scots Armies book. Sadly light on detail. There is mention of soldiers wearing plaid - short plaid rather than the voluminous things we think of. Not necessarily in tartan patterns but woven as tweed. This wasn't issued as part of the uniform, it was soldiers own. So officer's wearing plaid sleeveless jackets isn't too much of a stretch of the imagination.

Lots of pictures (in the MaA) of what appear to be buff and fabric jerkins. I believe there was a cloak/jerkin hybrid thing - more of a short cloak with arm holes.

There is much debate about why someone would go to the expense of a buff coat and not have sleeves. It was after all armour. However there are so many portraits of the great and good wearing buff coats that appear to have fabric sleeves. Possibly just dress buff coats, with full buff for battle? I have seen pictures of a buff coat with sleeves that appear to be attached by laces underneath a flap (don't think I've explained that very well). The buff coats from Littlecote are all very well made and the sleeves are permanently attached.

But back to the matter in hand. I took the opportunity to add some colour to my otherwise grey Scots. Went for tartanesque colours (think madder red, navy, buff, dark green) for fabric jerkins. You might be able to pick them out here:http://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2018/03/scotland-brave-part-two.html?m=1

Of course you are free to apply the British Civil War painters rule - 'nobody really knows', so paint them how you want.

Sean Clark

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Re: Help! ECW Lowland Command
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2018, 06:44:10 PM »
Radar

I live by the British Civil War painters rule. All of my units are fictional designed to fight Imagi-civil wars 😁


Radar

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Re: Help! ECW Lowland Command
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2018, 07:02:29 PM »
Correct answer!

Leslie BT

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Re: Help! ECW Lowland Command
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2018, 07:29:29 PM »
Your right Radar, we worry too much about getting every stitch correct, and all the colours as the pattern books.

But the reality is that on the day you use what you can find from the locals, if your the victor you just take it.

Also in times past Quality control was not what it is now, and the materials faded, there often was no resupply for years in some places. The uniforms for the foot soldiers were not of any quality.

On the whole if we as gamers who do spend some time researching cannot find an excat answer there probably is no definitive answer.

Westie

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Re: Help! ECW Lowland Command
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2018, 03:10:29 PM »
Well, in the absence of Martin's findings ("I will go and have a look on the morrow" - did you get lost?  ;) ), as a Scot myself and thinking the tartan jacket idea was a wee bit fanciful, I've joined the 'make it up' school of thought and gone ahead and painted the figure with a sleeveless leather buff jerkin draped over his back like a cape. Still to base and varnish it, mind you, but, even though I say so myself, it looks the bees knees!  ;D  Thanks again for your responses everyone.

Lurkio

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Re: Help! ECW Lowland Command
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2018, 04:21:56 PM »
When we did the 1680 Jacobite we did the research on the Plaid. The plaid is one big piece of cloth. The scot lies on the ground and wraps the lower half of the cloth around his waist and fixes this in place with a belt or similar. This then leaves a large amount of cloth above the waist which if he let fall would make him look like a female wearing a maxi skirt almost touching the ground. The highlander deals with this surplus material by taking one corner of the surplus cloth and  pulling it over his right shoulder and either fixing it in place with a large broach or tucking it into the belt at his waist.  From the rear the top surplus material would therefore be sloping towards the right shoulder and then stop at this point or come down to be tucked into the belt at the front.
If it was cold then he might unfix the top material and wrap it around his whole upper torso like a blanket. In this case the shirt or jacket would not be visible.

Radar

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Re: Help! ECW Lowland Command
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2018, 05:20:16 PM »
If you haven't seen it, "Why Does Everyone Hate The English" presented by Al Murray is excellent. The Scotland episode has a segment on plaid, and the idea that the Scots at Culloden would have ditched their kilts because they'd weigh too much wet. So they charged with their gentlemen's areas in full view.

Westie

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Re: Help! ECW Lowland Command
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2018, 10:19:19 AM »
Oh dear! Was it not very cold on that day in April 1746?  ;D

In one of the battles of the ECW/BCW in Scotland (Kilsyth?), was it also not the case that it was so hot that Montrose's highlanders(?) discarded their plaid and charged with their shirt tails tied between their legs.

Their are also a few videos on YouTube that show you how to put on the plaid. I suppose you must get quicker with practice but, as I found out at my daughter's wedding a fortnight ago, even just putting on a modern kilt and all its paraphernalia takes a lot longer than a modern 3 piece suit.