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Author Topic: Tonight's game. Wednesday 29.08.2018.  (Read 171 times)

Duncan

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Tonight's game. Wednesday 29.08.2018.
« on: August 30, 2018, 12:20:45 AM »
A good game tonight, between Michael and myself, not too rushed and plenty of time to look up and check the rules which brought up a few queries.

The game was between the House of Lone fleet as defenders and the British as attackers. It was a slight win for the House of Lone, one merchant lost as Struck, one escaped, but one of the attacking warships burnt. Used the trick of warship dressed as merchant so ended up with just two merchants.

1: Anyway, the following points need some clarification I feel. We used scenery for the first time. I was a bit confused about the placing of this, the rules we read implied that islands and other scenery have to be placed docked to the table edge? Is this correct, surely islands by their very nature are surrounded by sea? I understand that it should be possible to have land at the side, but it should also be possible to have an island as an island.

2: Also there was a bit that read as though the land could not be placed blocking some of the exit hexs but that if they blocked the exit hexs then the islands became a default new rugged table edge which kind of contradicted each other?

3: Also if the scenery is to be placed before the defender decides where to bring their vessels on from, how does someone know whether the land is going to block the exit or not as no decision as to which corner the defender is starting from has yet been made, at least officially?

4: Fog banks.  They are 7 hexs, not to be a long string. So if the defender manages to change the wind, then on a roll of 5 or 6 on a d6 the fog bank vanishes. It is unclear from the rules if this means that the fog bank can be moved 3 hexs if you then roll a 1 to 4 on a d6 following the wind change or do you get to move it 3 hexs each turn regardless assuming you do not roll a 5 or 6? Would it not make more sense for the fog bank to move 3 hexs in the direction of the wind rather than randomly as the defender wishes? Just a thought.

5: What does a fog bank do? We could not see anything in the rules beyond the initial set-up. Does it slow ships down, block line of fire? It may be there, but we just could not see it so gave up on using it.

6: I was under the impression that if ships failed to grapple then they were not subject to being in the 'Fizzy Bubble?' But I could not see that written anywhere?

7: If you broadside and two ships are in range but one of them is struck regardless of whether it was  boarded or not, do you still split the hits equally, if so how, but if not why not as they are still both in the arc of fire?

8: There was some confusion and contradicting rules regarding regarding of struck ships. One of my merchants was struck but not boarded by the enemy. I had a medium warship right behind it and wanted to put a crew counter across to it. My reasoning being that it has not been boarded by the enemy and the crew have just given up. Having armed Marines or sailors from one of their own warships come aboard should jivy them up and get then going, or the new sailors could do it themselves. However the rules said something to the effect that I could not regard one of my own struck ships until it had been boarded by the enemy. Surely this is a nonsense, it would be a lot easier to board your own ship with no one fighting you? This was then sort of contradicted further down by the rule that said along the lines of for the enemy to board it the defender would not role any dice to grapple or fight unless they had previously transferred crew from one of their other ships. So how can you transfer crew to a struck ship before it is boarded by the enemy if you cannot board it until after the enemy has boarded it? This just did not make any sense To me and I felt needed to be clarified.

9: If a previously struck ship is regarded by its own side, and is still held at the end of the game then who gets the victory points for it?

OK, some points there that we got hung up on in places. It was good though to have time to take a game slowly and to be able to go through the rules actually reading them to try and find the answer to things, a lot of which we did, but there were just those few points mainly around scenery placement, fog banks and boarding of struck ships that we could not work out.

No doubt clarity will come in time, but the game is coming on nicely and is jolly fun and enjoyable.

Leslie BT

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Re: Tonight's game. Wednesday 29.08.2018.
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2018, 01:53:06 PM »
1: The rules don't say it must be placed on the table edge. The only restriction is that each land hex must be touched on two edges by another land hex.

2: You cannot put any land hex within 4 hexes of the table corner. The defender must observe this when his first sets the land hexes out, and the attacker must also observe this requirement when and if he moves any scenery hexes.

3: This is all in the defenders control, so he would be a silly boy if he covers his exit with an island, me thinks.

4: Fog banks.  So if the defender manages to change the wind, then on a roll of 5 or 6 on a d6 the fog bank vanishes CORRECT.
The fog bank is moved 3 hexes in the direction of the wind, if it is not removed at wind direction change.

5: Martin needs to set out the problems a fog bank causes.

6: In the rules if the grappling is unsuccessful then there is no grappling. So the game just continues as if the grapple had not been attempted.

7: You will need to work how you split the broadside between the ships. Remember to allow the different number of dice if the ship are not the same size.

8: To get crew onto the ship you must go through the normal boarding action.
To claim ownership of a ship yours or your opponent you must board it. Its in the rules.

9: The point go to the owner, if it does not have an owner no one gets any points.

martin goddard

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Re: Tonight's game. Wednesday 29.08.2018.
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2018, 03:24:23 PM »
Duncan

Thanks for that. Just what is needed. Clear and useful for discussion. Please continue to do these comment/reports. I find them very useful.  Will get on and address each issue in the latest set. Such reports are welcome from any other play testers too.

Thanks again


martin

Duncan

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Re: Tonight's game. Wednesday 29.08.2018.
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2018, 09:24:18 PM »
Looking at version 30 you just sent us seems to have cleared up at least the scenery placement issues, much clearer now.

I will check out the rest when I have a few moments.

OK, have had a further look and boarding your own struck ship is still unclear to me. Section 41 page 58. "To be retake a struck ship must have been boarded." I don't  understand this?

In the scenario we had last night I had a medium merchant that was broadsided and subsequently struck in its own turn on an opportunity shot from Michael's ship. My next ship to activate was my medium warship which was just two hexs behind, so I wanted it to come alongside and put some of its plentiful crew onto the struck ship. This was to defend it should Michael try and board it to capture it.

Now it was a warship so that was fine, but we read the rule and it seemed that I could not put my crew onto my ship from another of my ships until it had been boarded by my opponent, then I had to try and take it back? That makes no sense? I can understand having to go through boarding action and a fight if an opponent has already captured it, but if it has not yet been captured then surely if I can I should be allowed to defend it? The rule on page 58 seems to deny this right?

Maybe we were reading it too literally?



Duncan

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Re: Tonight's game. Wednesday 29.08.2018.
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2018, 10:04:59 PM »
Oh yes, one more thing I forgot to mention.

Some of the tricks require you to declare things when your opponent FIRST comes within one hex of you. This implies that you have to declare it when an opponent comes within one hex regardless of if you intend to use that trick or not at that stage, so you maybe declaring something on a ship coming within a hex of an enemy when you do not want to use the trick on that ship or against that enemy ship. Does this force your hand, does it mean you have to allocate the trick to that ship just because it happens to have the misfortune of being the first ship to come within a hex of an enemy regardless of intent of use?

Duncan

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Re: Tonight's game. Wednesday 29.08.2018.
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2018, 10:29:22 PM »
Still looking at Fog in issue 30.

It states "Disappears if 5, 6 rolled after wind change by defender. Else moves exactly 3 hexs of defenders choice." On section 4 E page 39.

Now, does this mean that if the defender does not try to change the wind then the defender moves the fog 3 hexs of his choice, or that it is only moved 3 hexs of the defenders choice if the defender tries to change the wind but fails?

I see from the reply that Les gave he said it moves in the direction of the wind rather than the defenders choice, this would make more sense to me as otherwise it could become like the defenders forcefield following them or an opponent about. (Michael's words, not mine.) But I do agree with him.

Duncan

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Re: Tonight's game. Wednesday 29.08.2018.
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 10:36:40 PM »
OK, one last thing, just a small thing, but we both said it and agreed.

I understand the desire to have historical information in the finished rules. But when we are play testing, to be honest there is an awful lot of it and flicking through it looking for a rule takes time.

Is it possible to leave it out of the testing per rules and then add it back in for the end book? Sorry, it is just a small niggle, it is just a tad time consuming. Sorry.

martin goddard

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Re: Tonight's game. Wednesday 29.08.2018.
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2018, 01:21:49 PM »
Not a problem Duncan.
I can give detail of which pages contain the main sea fight rules. You can then cut and paste them to a new temporary document and just use that in the game?
Organisation  will get clearer as the rules progress (?)

Keep the comments coming please. :D :D